Previous in Forum: Mixing Chemicals   Next in Forum: Reducing Thickness of Porcelain Tile
Close
Close
Close
23 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 27

Thermal Conductivity

09/12/2012 3:42 AM

Does the Inside Temperature of a medium affect Thermal Conductivity?

If, yes. What is the Thermal Conductivity of Alumina Brick (AL2o3) exposed to inside temperature of 2000oC?

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/12/2012 3:46 AM

<...Does the Inside Temperature of a medium affect Thermal Conductivity?...>

It depends how close to a phase transition the system is.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 27
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/12/2012 3:59 AM

It is inside Electric Arc Furnace

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/12/2012 4:04 AM

Does that make a difference, then?

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 27
#5
In reply to #2

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/12/2012 4:31 AM

Yes, It does makes a difference.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Don't Know What Made The Old Title Attractive... Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - 60 Year Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yellowstone Valley, in Big Sky Country
Posts: 7425
Good Answers: 295
#7
In reply to #5

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/12/2012 10:09 AM

What difference does it make?

__________________
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 3943
Good Answers: 183
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/12/2012 12:07 PM

It makes a difference in the computation of heat losses and the temperature gradients in the wall.

If one considers the conductivity at 20°C and the one at 2000°C their ratio is 4:1.

The temperature field has, via its gradients, an effect on thermal strains and stresses and this makes a difference makes a difference. Of course the Young module has to be as well considered as variable in the last computations.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Don't Know What Made The Old Title Attractive... Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - 60 Year Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yellowstone Valley, in Big Sky Country
Posts: 7425
Good Answers: 295
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/12/2012 12:55 PM

Okay, I'm with you on that.

What difference does the fact that the heat source is electric arc make in this discussion?

__________________
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 3943
Good Answers: 183
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/12/2012 1:22 PM

None, from the conductivity point of view. The incoming heat will be not only convection or conduction but as well radiated. Since radiation depends on the difference of the 4th absolute temperature power it can become the major input.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Don't Know What Made The Old Title Attractive... Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - 60 Year Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yellowstone Valley, in Big Sky Country
Posts: 7425
Good Answers: 295
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/12/2012 2:28 PM

"None, from the conductivity point of view." I agree completely.

However, I am curious why our original poster would tell us in post #5, "Yes, It does makes a difference."

__________________
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 3943
Good Answers: 183
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/12/2012 5:40 PM

I am not in his head and he does not share his thoughts with us. As you noticed most of OP do not communicate only ask.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#14
In reply to #10

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/13/2012 3:07 AM

Agreed.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - Ever Changing United States - Member - From the Redwoods to the Valleys Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - Building blocks or writing code - to keep you comfortable

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 38th Parallel
Posts: 750
Good Answers: 19
#15
In reply to #14

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/13/2012 4:36 PM

BTW where did the OP go?

__________________
To be or not to be........ok that's a trick question.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: India
Posts: 1246
Good Answers: 34
#3

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/12/2012 4:00 AM
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 4)
2
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 3943
Good Answers: 183
#6

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/12/2012 7:56 AM

You would have obtained all data using google and asking for conductivity versus temperature for Al2O3!As you see the evolution is asymptotic and you could consider last value for higher temperatures. In fact if you want to compute in a correct way the heat transfer you should consider the k- variation through the wall thickness. In a transient computation the specific heat variation should be also considered. As you see since k decreases versus temperature and c increases heat diffusibility decreases.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Commentator

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 62
Good Answers: 10
#23
In reply to #6

Re: Thermal Conductivity

11/23/2012 9:32 PM

Except note that OP referenced alumina "brick", not the (presumably crystalline) aluminum oxide material that your Google results applied to. OP is asking about high temperature insulation, which would be porous. The information would have to be found in manufacturer's specs, or (long shot) someone here who has used this type of insulation and happens to know its approximate specs.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#13

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/12/2012 6:30 PM

What is your goal?

Reduced energy costs? Increased production? Cooler working environment? Better temperature control?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 725
Good Answers: 24
#16

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/14/2012 1:59 AM

Alumina Brick has poor thermal conductivity. The temperature profile across the cross section (inside to outside) will be in the unsteady state for a long time. Heat loss will also be in the unstaedy state for this period. One can consider thin slices of the insulation parallel to the inner surface and get conductivity for each slice at the slice temperature and integrate over the section to get a weighted average value for the insulation as a whole.

__________________
bioramani
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 3943
Good Answers: 183
#17
In reply to #16

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/14/2012 3:01 AM

Transient behavior is NOT only function of conductivity ! It is depending on the thermal difusibility which is the ratio between conductibility AND accumulating capability = cp*ρ.

For ceramic Al 2 O 3 as the graph shows the higher the temperature the lower the difusibility since k devreases AND cp increases.

It is possible to approximate the k- variation with a mathematical function (in same paper it is already done) and integrate the heat transfer equation for the steady state heat transfer, it is much more difficult to do it for the transient period.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 725
Good Answers: 24
#20
In reply to #17

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/14/2012 4:52 AM

If the residence time is short the losses can be less than after steady state is reached.

__________________
bioramani
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 3943
Good Answers: 183
#21
In reply to #20

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/14/2012 8:25 AM

Your statement is valid for ALL conduction related heat transfer situations not only for this one, it is nothing special if you ever used to analyse heat insulation problems.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 725
Good Answers: 24
#22
In reply to #21

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/14/2012 9:49 PM

Right you are. The statement was made only in case the OP's application involved short times.

__________________
bioramani
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: India
Posts: 1246
Good Answers: 34
#18

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/14/2012 3:55 AM

The melting point of Alumina Brick (AL2o3) = 20000 C

How can it be exposed to inside temperature of 2000oC? Preposterous!

Therefore the question of "Thermal Conductivity of Alumina Brick (AL2o3) exposed to inside temperature of 2000oC?" does not arise.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 725
Good Answers: 24
#19
In reply to #18

Re: Thermal Conductivity

09/14/2012 4:46 AM

Formula: Al2O3Density: 3.95 g/cm³Melting point: 2,072° CMolar mass: 101.961 g/molBoiling point: 2,977° C

__________________
bioramani
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 23 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

bioramani (4); Doorman (3); jmakgata (2); Joshi (2); lyn (1); nick name (6); PWSlack (3); Silverthorn (1); Stedou73ish (1)

Previous in Forum: Mixing Chemicals   Next in Forum: Reducing Thickness of Porcelain Tile

Advertisement