Dwelling Caves

Hi Wilma, hi Fred--

How's it going?

--Betty and Barney

Nowadays lots of people live in caves in manmade cliffs- they're called apartment buildings.

How can you get the needed population density into typically available cliff faces without significantly weakening them to the point where you may as well build your own (see above) and also provide the needed ventilation & natural light in a practical manner throughout the dwelling instead of to the localized area that a suntube provides? Not to mention fire escapes.

Not that there is a problem with the idea, but how can it practically supply needed shelter on a mass scale instead of being another concept that is supported by a few advocates as a panacea.

Oops! It was my fault!

I forgot to explain that the idea of artificial caves is especially for for people who want to live in a natural garden, close to mother earth!

But once the concept is accepted, then its implementing will be practiced on public facilities- like schools, industrial plants, offices and stores!

I always wanted to live like Bilbo and be a Hobbitt! LOL

One of these days I'll build my Earth shelter residence! I just have to get Mrs. Moosie to go with the flow and like the idea! Not an easy task!!!!!

Impractical and very expensive to implement in many areas. In my region, keeping an underground dwelling from becoming a dank dripping mold farm would take 10 times the initial construction cost and 3 times the energy I currently use to live above ground in a conventional (>100 year old) home. There are many ways to accomplish living green goals that are far more practical and cost effective. Here are "my" top six:

1> Build with renewable materials.
2> Design for low energy use - maximize solar gain, insulation, etc.
3> Utilize rooftop areas for garden space - construction cost penalty but can provide quick payback in energy savings. IMO fresh vegetable and herb production has significant value also.
4> Capture and utilize rainwater for on-site, non-potable garden/landscape, use.
5> Recycle EVERYTHING currently collected in your area - MANY people still don't recycle anything!?
6> Compost all non-animal kitchen waste and landscape clippings/leaves.

I have only made minor changes towards 1,2. Real changes would require a compete home tear-down and rebuild (very wasteful and costly). While I can't use the existing roof for a garden, I have converted a significant area of (resource wasteful) lawn space to garden space for vegetables and herbs and most of the water for the garden comes from redirected roof rain water 4. Items 5,6 are easy for me and the compost really helps the garden flourish.

Some of these are minor changes that MOST people could implement with minimal effort and cost. Sadly, many won't even make the simplest effort to reduce their "footprint". If you can't convince people to make the easy changes, there is no hope of getting them to make the more difficult ones.

I'm shameful to state that I'm a bloody fool!

As usual I forgot to tell that this vision should be only for hills and mountains!

Artificial caves inside mountain will not be endanger of floods ,and utilizing hill slopes will enable implementing this vision without too many problems.

Some of the others pointed out the problems. I have seen it done some 30 years old or better so the idea is not new. There are a few around here.

All are in hills in locations that I hope would not flood. If it ever does flood there would have to be a natural disaster. Like tsunami reaching inland 300 miles to 900 foot elevation. Hmm that takes out everything in Baltimore and DC. So the resident not the only one that would have a problem. Someone mention earthquakes. I'm sure if we can build 50 story hi rise to with stand one a home in a hill would be a breese.

The construction costs are higher to eliminate some of these problems like mold. Drain fields around the walls to reduce moisture migration though the walls. To help with natural lighting the fronts of the home is exposed and facing south. Most of the fronts are glass.

The one I am most familar with was designed, built and resided in by an engineer. An acquaintance only because I asked about the home. Does it save on energy he said yes. Does the savings cover the cost of construction. He said come back in 20 years or so.

I found this right now in today's Gizmag:http://www.gizmag.com/earth-houses-hobbit-holes/24534/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=

To reply to some of the objections- the berm concept is no more expensive than regular housing and does not have the moisture, lack of light or location of other forms of below ground- just build the home on normal ground and excavate on the south side to provide an artificial lake- use the soil from basement (if dug) or the other soil to berm on the north side and roof leaving the front exposed to light- a further use of nature would be use straw bales for the walls which provides an R factor of over 90, is vermin and fire resistant, much lest costly and stronger than convention wood framing (18 inches support as opposed to 6 inches, and is time and earthquake resistant- some of these in Nevada are over 200 years old and whose walls for a 1800 sq ft home could be put up by 4 men in two day and cost under $3000

The concept of earth sheltered houses , berm housing and in hill housing has been around since man began and is still a viable option- sadly the concept you offered will not cover the needs of our overgrown population, but berm housing will- I am now on my 3 rd in ground house and the benefits far exceed the problems- significantly lower heat costs, no land loss, aquifer recharge and best of all the personal feeling of doing something for the environment- also should look a the potential for growing crops in abandoned or worked out mine facilities in northern regions- or other regions where surface crops are not viable- the artificial environment can easily and cheaply be built to replicate good crop conditions and could thus make normally uninhabitable- or costly regions more viable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthship

http://earthship.com/

On a recent trip to Taos, we visited here. Impressive even to a non-greenie.

Consider the "vertical crawlspace". Dig a hole, providing for drainage, sewer pipes, etc. Cover the hole with a roof, the design of which depends on the location. It could be an inflated fabric, a greenhouse, or something more massive. The roof controls solar heating and light and convection. Humans like sunlight. The result is a microclimate resembling coastal California, cool but never freezing. Again, a greenhouse roof can control the temp. Now, build a simple house inside the hole. It need not resist extreme temperatures or wind loads or snow loads or forest fires. A mobile (manufactured) home or even a tent will do. Because the walls of the house are not in contact with earth, problems of seepage, mold, etc.go away. Plant some greenery around the house and on the walls of the hole for esthetic reasons. Compared with building a superinsulated house in Montana or such, it's not expensive.

We covered Earth Shelter design quite extensively in a fairly lengthy blog thread back in January of this year:

Design Question for an Underground Home

Building a cave dwelling is relatively inexpensive (though not necessarily cheap), cave houses can have all the amenities of a regular house (and more), electricity, plumbing, and HVAC are easy to install, and cave houses remain dry and habitable with normal ventilation, unlike many stone caves that can store dampness.

Even those with claustrophobia find modern cave houses quite comfortable.

After becoming accustomed to cave living, it is soothing to return to a home with the solidity of the earth and the silence of a church.

A sort of compromise , for the right conditions , which can be used as an 'add-on ' for existing houses , is the living wall , with some sort of probably plastic guttering type structure fixed nearly horizontally up the walls , and decorative and edible plants grown in them . Saw an example at Expo 2009 in London . Made by a big firm , and expensive , but I'm sure its possible to do for less . Advantages are various , but will obviously provide some wind chill mitigation to the wall , as well as being very attractive . Anyone have experience of doing this ?