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When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/16/2012 8:51 AM

Recently a question was asked about calculating the "no load" current of an induction motor. As I read over the responses it occurred to me that the person who asked the question assumed that all induction motors were the same, which of course only has a weak claim to the truth. But the way the question was asked indicated that this person did not have much exposure the the variety of motors out there.

It reminded me of a troubleshooting occasion where a large (10HP) motor was connected to an equally large vacuum pump that was part of a larger assembly of vacuum pumps and the system pressure was higher than it should have been. The complaint was described as a leak but I knew that all the pumps had to be working for the system to reach the deep vacuum level that was "normal".

As I considered how I might determine where the fault was, I considered measuring motor currents of the various pumps and I decided it was easier than that. I simply walked around the equipment and inspected the shaft ends of the motor and pump. I pointed to one which had a metal cover over a universal connector that was broken and the whole thing took less than a minute to troubleshoot.

The moral of this story is to apply what you know about the system or something similar so that you understand it well enough to troubleshoot easily. I rarely carry a meter with me on a troubleshooting call unless there is no doubt I will have to measure something. I try not to rely on calculating except where necessary but the point is that there are only a few occasions and not very many formulas that you need to know to be very good at troubleshooting. And a large part of any engineer's career is spent troubleshooting. And frequently there is no need for calculations.

It seems that some students think that knowing how to calculate everything is the key. But there is an inherent need to understand the applications that invoke those formulas to be used. Do you find a need to do a lot of calculations in real life?

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#1

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/16/2012 9:31 AM

No.

Your point about "educated fools" is well taken.

It is obvious many times here that original posters don't know anything about the practical side of life.

Thus they cling to the belief if they can run through some calculations they will derive a satisfactory answer to their question. Never mind they they have no clue what the calculations mean in the real world.

I've seen this with mechanical designers, who have never turned a crank on a mill or lathe, but by-god, they've got a design here and they want it built, per print.

Tolerances is another pet peeve of mine. Let's just make 'em all +- .001 whatever the unit.

Calculations should come AFTER practical knowledge of the widget in question.

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#2

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/16/2012 2:11 PM

Many years ago I worked as a tech for a very large company in their R&D department. They brought in 3rd and 4th year engineering students every summer for some 'real world' experience.

They gave them a project and couple of weeks to do the engineering. Then they sent them to us to get their project built.

It was fun working with the students who wanted to learn and also fun sending the arrogant ones out to look for muffler grease.

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#9
In reply to #2

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/17/2012 7:16 AM

The learning in universities and the personal achievement depend on the person . We should talk about comptent students on the other side as well.

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#3

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/16/2012 2:17 PM

there is an inherent need to understand the applications.
Indeed!
Key word 'understand'.
I had a classic today...
I wanted to buy some Mother of Pearl (MOP) online, most of it is 1.5 mm thick, but I wanted at least 2mm.
I got onto one company who didn't specify a thickness and they said they'd find out and E-mail me...
Got an E-mail this morning saying their pieces are 90mm thick That must be one damn huge mofo of a giant clam they got that MOP from. They obviously didn't understand the product, the question, where a decimal point should go or WTF they are selling.
I'm assuming it's prob' 0.9mm?
Del
(I want it for arrow plates on my bows)

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/16/2012 2:25 PM

Perhaps it's a BFP instead. BFP= Big Freakin Pearl.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/16/2012 3:00 PM

How about "Mother of All Pearls"?

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#6
In reply to #3

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/16/2012 3:55 PM

I think he was trying to sell you some "mother of all pearl"...

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#8
In reply to #3

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/17/2012 1:27 AM

Probably measured width instead of thickness. Never mind the quality......

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#12
In reply to #3

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/17/2012 1:28 PM

My guess is that they wanted to sell you the whole unfinished abalone shell. This would also explain also why the contact had to measure a nominal shell. An excellent example of not understanding the question.

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#7

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/17/2012 12:48 AM

Motor manufacturers should include no-load current in the nameplate,instead of confusing users.

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#15
In reply to #7

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/19/2012 3:34 AM

Why is it so important to know the no-load current? After all, a motor in this condition is better switched off; it isn't doing anything.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/19/2012 5:12 AM

After rewinding a motor for testing at no-load and to assess the sizes of capacitors required for PFC and starting(shunt cap starting)

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#10

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/17/2012 7:49 AM

the whole thing took less than a minute to troubleshoot.

Yeah right!

It takes longer than that just to give a cuss in the first place.

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#11

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/17/2012 12:30 PM

"And a large part of any engineer's career is spent troubleshooting"... this is true even right after the design, there is still the need to test and debug for any problem(s)!

As I remembered reminding my staff, to be effective in doing repairs and troubleshooting, they need to develop the ability to use / harness all God given gifts... Initially collecting behavioral information using the following;

Their Eyes - for observation if something is amiss. Noting both proper and improper operational behaviors?

The Nose - to smell if something is hot or burning,

Feel - develop a sense of abnormal operational temperatures or even the presence nearby HV,

Ears - listening for any abnormal operational noise or sound,

Only after conducting above exercises, they can do the analysis, comparing all collected observations to whatever theoretical knowledge they have stored in their brains!

If still not successful, this will be the time to pull out any test instruments to conduct further tests and analysis..

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/17/2012 9:52 PM

It will be incomplete if they don't undergo proper training.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/17/2012 11:13 PM

It was a constant reminder, part of the staff's continuing education /and annual competency review program..

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#17

Re: When Calculating Something Isn't Important

11/20/2012 6:13 AM

My old professor separated the issues in 4 groups:

The urgent important, the not important but urgent ,the important but not urgent and not urgent and not important.

If the issue is not important don't waste your time calculating something.

I think if you have not a catalogue or a respectable author book to consult it, you have no other possibility but to try to calculate.

The experience has to assist you to appreciate the result.

With all due respect to the software people I don't trust in a published program. I do myself a "handmade" calculation in excel or in

Visual Basic [6] and I compare the result with catalogue, standard or else [even not so "respectable author"].

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