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Anonymous Poster

Piping Design Question

05/23/2007 4:59 AM

Hi to all, am currently working on a piping design for a catalyst activation process of copper and aluminium alloy. We use sodium gluconate as the chelating agent and caustic soda to extract aluminium from the alloy, as we need copper with as little of impurities as possible which is then used for some conversion reaction, just to give you the process background. Over the yrs carbon steel pipes which are rubber lined on the inside have been used but because the outside is wearing and rusting away, new piping is considered as well other diagnostic,ergonomic and economic measures to better the present system ie flow control valves, temperature transmitter's & indicators, pressure reducers, strainers etc. I am considering GRP( glass re-enforced plastic) piping for this application but my problem is in finding the relative roughness for this material, could anyone help me in this regard.

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Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: Piping Design Question

05/23/2007 11:23 PM

Hi

Have you find the manufacturer that produces GPR? If so, they should have all required information for that or any other pipe which you might have considered.

Good luck.

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Associate

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 27
#2

Re: Piping Design Question

05/23/2007 11:50 PM

How about the high pressure resistance PVC type pipe if they could satisfy your requirements?they are less expensive and available every where.

Good luck

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Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 137
#3

Re: Piping Design Question

05/24/2007 1:04 AM

Oh, welcome our guest to the great CR4 bunch of highly skilled Bananas. I here your request and, as probably others read, there are two striking things that come ou and try to strangle my/our intelect. You said 'steel' and 'rubber'. With absolute no offence, but boy are you starting from a melting pot of potencial chemical reactivity. It is in my opinion, others may differ, ( and I like the PVC answer but... gOOD ONE NONE THE LESS). Let us, EVERYONE, start from scratch. There is an obvious potential that the piping material may contribute to the answer to the problem. So; Yes PVC is good but could still leach. Let's go with eliminating the variable of piping material as an effect on process by seleecting a material that will not be that addative....! OK? What of, for a scaled version of process, go with glass filled Teflon tubing? How does that sound to the folks out there so far? As far as getting the Al out of the CU, instead of looking in the direction of what Aluminum is readily 'eaten' up by. Would not a solution as Copper Sulph/f ate, ( saturated at a temp below your process and introdused to, via osmo, attract the ionic copper out of the solution? Then could the remaining solution, Aluminium rich just be extracted electrolyticaly? ). The Glass filled Teflon may be an expensive stretch; But would it not provide you with the baseline that perhaps you could judge the PVC against. Please respond by saying something to Anony6664. Thanks. Feedback is what keeps us alive. PS Jorrie,ash didn't do this:-! Next I am thinking that you mention, it seems, you are after to gain

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Anonymous Poster
#4

Re: Piping Design Question

05/24/2007 12:15 PM

Look at epoxy-coated and lines steel, PVC, and HDPE. Depending on the system you may need steel for strength, and temperature resistance. HDPE is resistant to both the sodium hydroxide and gluconate, but looses strength fast with temperature changes in the normal atmospheric ranges. PVC is resistant but the glue will deteriorate under long term exposures to caustics, leading to maintenance issues and multiple failures at joints in 5 to 10 years. Steel may be the best bet, long term performance, commonly available,easy to monitor for damage, huge factors of safety and repairs are reasonably straight forward.

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Anonymous Poster
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Piping Design Question

05/28/2007 6:15 AM

hi, thanx for your response, perhaps i should start by mentioning that my first bet was steel but because of price increases here in South Africa, my boss wanted me to consider other options but sadly as you've pointed out, saving on material will catch up in maintanace and perfomance in near furture. Now tell me regarding PVC, isn't there some form of insulating medium which can be used to guard against the deterioration caused by caustic, and could you specify the temperature ranges for HDPE, our operating temperature average is 40 degrees celcius, but am designing for below 30 degrees celcius(changing from cooling water to chilling water,plant demand on cooling water has increased and the reduction in supply has proven the cooling to be less effective), the operating pressure is 300 kPa, for your response consider a 2" to 3" pipe diameters.

'the only thing to do with good advice is to pass it on, it is never of any use to oneself' -- Oscar Wilde

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