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Super Light Graphite

01/04/2013 4:35 AM

Good day! There were announced the discovery of a new type of graphite, lighter than the air six times... My question is: shouldn´t that matherial float on the air?

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#1

Re: Super light Graphite

01/04/2013 7:17 AM

Sounds promising.

According to this, it's the air that gives it most of it's weight.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-09/a-lighter-than-air-building-material

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Super light Graphite

01/04/2013 10:34 AM

I got to hold a 1" cube of aero-gel back in the 1980's.

It messed with your senses because it had no discernible mass, but it had shape.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Super light Graphite

01/04/2013 12:06 PM

Ah, that would explain a lot.
Del
(scampers off to hide in secret cat nest)

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Super light Graphite

01/04/2013 12:16 PM

As in airhead???

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Super light Graphite

01/04/2013 12:48 PM

C'mon, if I gotta explain it ain't funny.
I was implying you have no sense, as you said it messed senses.
Oh I'm a baaad kitty.. I shall go to the naught step with no tea and think about what I've said
Del

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Super light Graphite

01/04/2013 1:12 PM

Wonder what would happen if you shot a chunk with an arrow?

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Super light Graphite

01/04/2013 2:35 PM

Presumably if the chunk wasn't attached to anything the arrow would penetrate and carry it away only being slowed by wind resistance. the light weight and lack of inertia would prob stop the arrow going clean through it.
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#4

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/04/2013 12:07 PM

cool stuff!, thanks for brining it up, sounds like a trick insulation too.

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#8

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/04/2013 2:01 PM

Showing off his new aerographite outfit....

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#10

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/04/2013 11:11 PM

Despite all the interesting comments- no. Actual material density and cubage density are 2 different things; the lattice structure of these materials is extremely open, so the weight of the material must be added to the weight of the air that permeates it giving a net density greater than air.

Now if you were to fill a balloon with it and evacuate the air it might work!! A non-leaking replacement for helium?

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/05/2013 3:43 AM

Good point.
Now if you were to fill a balloon with it and evacuate the air it might work!!
If it is strong enough not to collapse.
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#16
In reply to #11

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/05/2013 10:21 AM

Yes. I remember some school history (now that's a long time ago!) of early flight attempts, and several tried to use evacuated metal spheres. Probably found they were too heavy by the time they were strong enough not to collapse!

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#18
In reply to #10

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/05/2013 4:44 PM

Wait - what? Air + six times lighter than air = heavier that air?

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/05/2013 6:23 PM

Sometimes I wish some journalists weren't so dense...No wait, I mean heavy... no I mean thick!!

Their wonderful way of describing density as weight is always confusing.

Simple description of what the reality is:

  1. Take a balance (it better be darned accurate!!) & zero it.
  2. Note that the balance actually has approximately 14.7 pounds of atmosphere pressing down on each square inch of the pan (yah, I know it depends where you are!!), but this is exerted as a pressure that is counteracted by an equivalent force on the bottom of the pan. This is really irrelevant to the experiment, but the point is that there IS a certain mass of air present that is not being massed by the balance.
  3. Take a cube of this stuff & carefully measure the dimensions.
  4. Weigh it.
  5. Calculate the density from 3 & 4.
  6. Realize that it is lighter than air but doesn't float away...
  7. Scratch your head....
  8. Put it in a hydraulic press & compress it into a solid pellet (about the size of an average anonymous posters' IQ) that excludes air.
  9. Drop it on the floor. Before it gets there, it will disappear into one of the black holes referenced elsewhere in CR4 recently.
  10. Repeat steps 3, 4 &v 8 with a much larger piece, carefully avoiding step 9.....
  11. Measure the size of the resulting pellet. Realize 1) that it is actually more dense than air, and 2) so are many people who write articles about these things.
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#21
In reply to #18

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/06/2013 5:31 AM

....Well,it depends on the gas produced from drinking beer.....

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#22
In reply to #10

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/07/2013 2:08 PM

Non-leaking??? I would think this thing would require its own full-time vacuum pump to maintain lighter - than - air status. If the material has enough structure to hold its shape against an atmosphere (more or less) of external pressure, perhaps design of the vacuum cells could be possible, if not, then the vessel containing the material would outweigh air volume displaced, and the whole concept never gets off the ground.

Question: What happens if you fill this graphene material with pure oxygen? Will it combust?

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#12

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/05/2013 8:28 AM

To float it must have more pressure under it than on top just like a hot air balloon. A flat profile will have equal pressure now if you had some air movement upward it may rise similar to a leaf being blown. Make it into a balloon shape and remove the air or reduce the air density as in heating then it will float. No different than a hot air balloon.

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#15
In reply to #12

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/05/2013 10:17 AM

To float it must have more pressure under it than on top

That's not quite correct- it is for an airplane wing or helicopter rotor, but not for a balloon. They are simply a displacement function as a result of gravity having a stronger pull on the mass of the surrounding air, relating to the density. An easy description is to take two helium balloons of equal weight & volume, one a regular shape & the other a sausage shape. You'll find that they have equivalent lifting force ( & also the sausage shape will be the same regardless of being vertical or horizontal) which would not be true if it was dependent on pressure gradients.

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/05/2013 10:40 AM

I agree with you but it must be lighter than air there fore the air pressure under has to be higher even if infinitesimal measurement assuming the air is not moving. Airplane wing works on different principal and requires air flow and both work well of which I am aware. Air is denser at lower locations than higher elevations no matter how much only question is how much? If pressure were equal in all directions then we would have equilibrium and no movement.

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#13

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/05/2013 9:16 AM

I truly believe if we could simply weave it into a rug that could support weight. It would be like reinventing the wheel. Oh those ole schoolhouse days.

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#19
In reply to #13

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/05/2013 4:46 PM

Flying carpet?

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#14

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/05/2013 9:22 AM

you might want to do a Google search on specific weight to better understand it, but I do get your point

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#23

Re: Super Light Graphite

01/07/2013 2:19 PM

You mean like this? This is a scale model of the one being planned. I am not sure what the bouyancy agent is in this craft, however the article (found in the new story notification below) mentions internal bouyancy control. I can't wait to get the chance to fly on one of these.

http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/gizmodo/excerpts/~3/UoOqU6y07c0/the-titanic-aeroscraft-is-finished++and-its-awesome

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