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8v92 Detroit Water Down Exhaust

01/27/2013 4:10 PM

I am working on an 8v92 Detroit that got water down the exhaust when apparently the rain cap being open( wind?) and water gathered in the oil pan, froze and broke the bottom of the oil pan out on two sides of the sump. I am wondering if anyone has experienced a problem like this, and what was the damage, if any, besides the oil pan. The engine turns over. There is some of the oil/water mix( milky colored) on the bottom of the main bearing caps, seen after removing the cast-iron pan. The oil pick-up screen was in the bottom of the pan, as was the keeper.

Would the pressure of the ice that pushed out the bottom of the pan have done any possible damage to the block from the bottom of the block to the cylinders? What should I be looking for? Is there any way for the water to get out besides the break in the bottom of the pan? Would the oil be trapped on top of the ice? I am planning on replacing the main and rod bearings.

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#1

Re: 8v92 detroit

01/27/2013 5:43 PM

"There is some of the oil/water mix( milky colored) on the bottom of the main bearing caps,"

I'd think everything above the main bearing caps would be OK.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: 8v92 detroit

01/27/2013 6:03 PM

Agreed, if you replace or at least clean rod and main bearings, it should be OK.

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#3

Re: 8v92 detroit

01/27/2013 6:12 PM

time for some magnafluxing!!

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#4

Re: 8v92 Detroit Water Down Exhaust

01/27/2013 11:11 PM

The exhaust pipe and manifold usually are not connected to the crakcase and oil pan. You should check the cooling system for leaks into the crankcase and pan.

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#11
In reply to #4

Re: 8v92 Detroit Water Down Exhaust

01/28/2013 5:34 PM

I eliminated the cooling system because I figured that the coolant was pretty much down to temperature( -40*), and the system was full. It would not freeze and break the pan. thanks for the thought

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#17
In reply to #4

Re: 8v92 Detroit Water Down Exhaust

01/29/2013 6:42 AM

The exhaust pipe and manifold usually are not connected to the crankcase and oil pan. You should check the cooling system for leaks into the crankcase and pan.

They are connected; Water coming into the exhaust or air intake will seep past any open exhaust or intake valve, past the rings and into the crank case.

Turning the engine over before changing the oil and priming it by some means could have caused the babbitt in the bearing to flow, they most likely would have been okay.Also the rings may have caused some scoring of the liner. It should have been soaked with penetrating oil for a good spell.

It is doubtful that any other damage was caused by the ice; since the pan is much weaker than the block and surrounding components, it acted like a frost plug and broke before anything else would have.

Clean it out good, check the bearings, change the oil and you should be good. You may need to replace the rings and hone the liner from cranking it dry and the valves could probably have some corrosion from the water and may need to be at the very least lapped.

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#5

Re: 8v92 Detroit Water Down Exhaust

01/27/2013 11:17 PM

For any the DDC 2-stroke Diesel engines, I would also recommend checking the piston rings, ring grooves and cylinder wall for corrosion. This 2-piece piston is steel upper with aluminum skirt.

Water coming down the stack must have passed though the open exhaust valves (4 per cylinder) on some cylinders in firing order. It then would sit on the piston crown and trickle down past the rings into the airbox and oil sump.

Oil on most components may have protected them for a while. But corrosion is possible.

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#12
In reply to #5

Re: 8v92 Detroit Water Down Exhaust

01/28/2013 5:36 PM

Good thought, thanks

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#6

Re: 8v92 Detroit Water Down Exhaust

01/27/2013 11:55 PM

I have a 6V-53, similar but smaller.

I agree with awelch.

The water must have gone down the stack, through the exhaust system, through the exhaust valves and trickled down the cylinders.

If the oil pan broke and drained all the water there may have been no water there to be sucked into the lube oil system when you turned it over. I would guess there is no water in the bearings. Even if there was some sucked up by turning it over you could still flush it out by hooking a pump to the lube oil system. I use a "Gear Puppy" as a pre-start lube oil priming pump to pump up the oil pressure to 15psi before hitting the start switch.

I suspect there will be corrosion in the path of the water. You have to remove the pan anyway and I would pull the pistons and inspect the rings, pistons and cylinder tubes; and while doing that send the heads to the head shop to be checked out so corroded valve sealing surfaces will not become burned valves.

It may be that the corrosion is slight and needs only a lick and polish; it may be that the corroded parts will have to be replaced. Much depends on how long the leaking was going on.

Next time perhaps a (automatic) drain on the exhaust that can be opened when the engine is not in use will prevent a recurrence.

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#13
In reply to #6

Re: 8v92 Detroit Water Down Exhaust

01/28/2013 5:40 PM

Thank you for your opinion. It does sound possible, that is the corrosion in the rings and cylinders.

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#7

Re: 8v92 Detroit Water Down Exhaust

01/28/2013 12:44 AM

How much water was there?

I would have expected the water expansion would have had a lot of room in the pan before the pressure built to the point it broke things. Just like when a milk bottle freezes, it extrudes up the neck first.

Maybe I am visualizing this all wrong.

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#8

Re: 8v92 Detroit Water Down Exhaust

01/28/2013 2:07 AM

I have a large amount of experance in this area. The only other areas I would check is the oil cooler core and the blower itself The rain would have gone thru the blower, upper block. and could have gotten on top of several pistons. Generally if you did not run the engine with oil and water mixed I would change the bearing and before you do that I would put clean oil in the pan and pressure prime the system until all the oil/water mixture is cleaned out of the system. After you clean it out and rerun it I would load it on a dyno or in the equipment getting it completely warmed up until it quits blowing water vapor out of the valve covers, as the engine heats up the remaining water will boil into steam and leave the system thru the valve cover venting system. I would then change the oil again and you should be ok Bill

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#14
In reply to #8

Re: 8v92 Detroit Water Down Exhaust

01/28/2013 5:50 PM

I guess I should have mentioned that the engine is in a drilling machine and has dual exhaust all coming down from above the heads. The machine sat for several years with a tarp cover. The owner had a stroke and during the 4-5 years that it sat the tarp detereriated and it sat several years in the open weather. I heard them mention that one of the exhaust rain caps was open for how long I do not know. The blower sits above the exhaust manifolds. You people with your comments are convincing me to take the engine apart, thanks.

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: 8v92 Detroit Water Down Exhaust

01/28/2013 10:40 PM

IMHO After that period of time & circumstances a lot of damage could have occurred that would cause a major failure & a lot of damage, if you get it to run. I would completely dismantle, inspect everything & repair/replace any damaged parts. It might cost extra doing this, but it could be a fraction of the cost if the motor is destroyed if you don't.

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#9

Re: 8v92 Detroit Water Down Exhaust

01/28/2013 9:11 AM

I have seen this many times in DG sets.

The only way the water can enter the oil pan through the exhaust manifold is through the exhaust valves, into the cylinders, and down wround the pistons.

This means the cylinder head, valves, seast, & rings are suffering form oxidation damage. (pitting)

The engine needs to be dismantled, all rust removed, the oxidation dmage repaired, and any non-repairable components need to be replaced.

Milky oil means the camshaft, bearings, mains, and rod bearings are also contaminated especially since the engine was "turned over" with water in it.

A minor overhaul is in order.

Failure to do this will result in the engine performing poorly and failing within a short time.

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#15
In reply to #9

Re: 8v92 Detroit Water Down Exhaust

01/28/2013 6:00 PM

I am agreeing with you, but I wanted to let you know that the engine was never run with water in the crankcase. The oil pan cracked and the water and oil drained. The new owner asked for my help. He did check the oil before trying to start it, and filled it to the full mark. Never did get it started, and I do not know how much time he spent trying to start it, I was not there. I do know enough about Detroits to take them apart and put them back together again. It's the unknowns that I am questioning. Thank you for your thoughts.

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#10

Re: 8v92 Detroit Water Down Exhaust

01/28/2013 12:55 PM

Did the engine have antifreeze in the cooling system?

Do you know for a fact, that it is rain water in the engine?

I would tear the engine down completely and check the connecting rods. Some of the rods could be bent from a hydraulic lock. I have seen plenty of engines run fine with the rods bent slightly. But, when the engine is put under load the rod snaps in the middle, and you can imagine the result.

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