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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 50

Atmosferic Plasma to Treat Polypropylene

02/04/2013 8:49 AM

Hi group, in my company we need to improve the adhestion of glass fiber and resin (GFRP) to polypropylene tubes (200 mm diameter, 4, mm tickness). Nowadays we do that with a flame that heat the tube and then adding a thin glass fiber fabric.

I have heard that Plasma is a good solution, but the equipments are expensive to us in the early stage.

There is way to manufacture a 'non efficient' or "low cost" atmosferic plasma machine based in a plasma cutting machine?

any idea is welcome!

Thanks in advance!!

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Join Date: Oct 2008
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#1

Re: Atmospheric Plasma to treat Polypropylene

02/04/2013 8:54 AM

No, probably not.

There may be lab models, but they're probably too expensive, too.

Where have you looked?

Have you talked to and equipment suppliers to see what's out there?

Note: atmospheric.

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Join Date: Aug 2012
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#2

Re: Atmosferic Plasma to Treat Polypropylene

02/04/2013 9:34 AM

Not likely.

Plasma cutters are designed to provide an intense and highly focused plasma arc. So in your case you would need to channel the plasma into a system to surround the tubes, as well as providing a ground point to carry the arc to. By the time you figured it out, made it and factored in the cost of custom made consumables I imagine a natural gas flamer would be pretty attractive. What's the matter with your existing system?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Atmosferic Plasma to Treat Polypropylene

02/04/2013 9:59 AM

the issue with the current flame method is the man labour time, that is too high and the products are not in equal quality. It relies too much in the operator that do the job, so that is the reason why we are looking for another solution.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Atmosferic Plasma to Treat Polypropylene

02/04/2013 11:15 AM

I think your issue is that you want either free labor or someone to tell you how to make a cheap surface treatment for PPRO.

Well, not everything in life is free.

You HAVE TO PAY FOR QUALITY!

Talk to these people, Openair® plasma treatment - plasmatreat.com or hire a job shop with a plazma treater to do the work for you. ELECTRO TECH INDUSTRIES, India, Manufacturer, Sell123.org

Try doing some research. Yes, it will take time. No, unlike this forum, your time is not free.

You can always hire a consultant to refine your processes. Yes, it will cost you money.

Alternately, change materials.

Your time has expired. Good bye.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Atmosferic Plasma to Treat Polypropylene

02/04/2013 12:14 PM

we want to search for alternatives sir, obviously we do not want it free.

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Atmosferic Plasma to Treat Polypropylene

02/04/2013 12:22 PM

Reported to CR4 about the answer of the user Lyn.

The user use a very agressive tone in his answer. He tried to make my question as a ridiculous one and he deserved the right to answer as if his answer were the only one in reason.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Atmosferic Plasma to Treat Polypropylene

02/04/2013 12:23 PM

Did you look at the sites I posted?

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Atmosferic Plasma to Treat Polypropylene

02/04/2013 11:31 AM

Could you define why that is?

I'm somewhat familiar with the plastic bottle industry and the flamers they use there for example; these would seem to be ideally suited to your process as the tubes could be arranged to feed through automatically with a simple feed/ takeoff conveyor setup. This would allow you to have a standard throughput rate that should reduce operator attention and improve consistency.

What I'm getting at is that a flame is simpler to direct and more controllable for heat input than a plasma cloud for non standard use (I have both torches and a plasma cutter). The problem you're describing appears more related to how you're doing the process than what the process is IMHO. Either way, I can tell you that fudging something up from a plasma cutter sure won't improve quality! If that's what's needed, you might just have to shell out some cash.

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#9

Re: Atmosferic Plasma to Treat Polypropylene

02/05/2013 4:51 PM

Could you define what you consider "expensive"? I have seen an open air plasma machine for about $10k.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Atmosferic Plasma to Treat Polypropylene

02/07/2013 6:58 AM

Expensive for the company is almost USD $30.000. But $10.000 could be very affordable, I guess.

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#11

Re: Atmosferic Plasma to Treat Polypropylene

02/07/2013 11:42 AM

Dont forget about primers, they have solved many of my problems and are very well engineered to specific materials (surface energies). Check companies like Dymax, Loctite etc.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Atmosferic Plasma to Treat Polypropylene

02/07/2013 12:06 PM

thanks!, primers are good idea, but I will ask if they can be used in polypropylene.

thanks again!

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Fundacion (5); JNB (2); lyn (3); stringman (1); tommyb2 (1)

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