Gun Hatch / Turret

Absolutely or else everyone will want to play in it.

Maybe a little OT here, but being an Australian shooter I am totally confused by American hunter's stated requirements for assault weapons.

Are they such poor marksmen that they need more than five shots available at any one time?

Oh boy, here we go again! First off, it's not an "assault weapon"! That's a politically invented terminology from the late 1980's and early 1990's because the American Liberals didn't know how to classify "those mean looking guns". They are in fact semi-automatic rifles! Even the U.S. Military does not use the term, nor do they have "assault weapons" in their inventories. I could literally scream at the top of my lungs every time I hear that incorrectly applied term!

Why does one need more than 5 rounds in an AR magazine? For home defense you take into battle with you (against an intruder to your domain) as much firepower as you can muster, or you're dead and so is your family. You will not have time to reload another magazine of limited capacity in a Close Quarters Combat (CQC) situation. Get freaking real and use some common sense....

I hunt with an AR-15 rifle (and no, it's not a "gun"). ever hunt in thick brush and overgrowth? Branches and twigs and grass can deflect a perfectly aimed round going downrange, hence the need for a larger capacity magazine to get off another round or more. And sometimes you have more than a single target, so a larger capacity mag is warranted.

Personally, I prefer a semi-automatic to fight tyranny from the Government. We have a 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution that afford us this God given Right. Oz doesn't. Also, the 2nd Amendment was penned by our Founding Fathers for hunting purposes, something the Liberals in this country conveniently forget about....

BTW, how are those Gun Grabbing laws of your going down there? They didn't exactly work out as planned, eh? Violence and crime are in epic proportions ever since the big gun grab, huh? Good going....now you're all screwed.

Too funny!

The 2nd amendment starts with "Well regulated militia", not pig hunters.

No kidding.

Anyone that has read the US Constitution and Bill of Rights as well as the Federalist Papers knows that.

Did I say anything about pig hunting? No.

I'm with you, Cap, but that is a typical answer from the gun-haters. Call people they don't understand, whose life doesn't come anywhere near what they expect, with no knowledge of their living conditions, and absolutely nothing in common, a lot of stupid names. And make fun of anything they can't understand, using words of less than two syllables, chosen for their silliness, to appeal to a group of people no more intelligent or well-informed than themselves, and when the cronies laugh, declare victory and go home, still with no more knowledge, understanding, nor wisdom than they brought with them (What, them, learn something? From Gun Nuts? they know everything they ever needed to know so why waste the time?).

Sounds like a plan to me. At least if I want to stay stupid in the eyes of the rest of the world for my entire life. I at least TRY to understand what makes the anti-fun crowd tick. I ask probing questions, listen to the answers (as long as they don't stoop to name-calling as soon as they run out of logic!) and I expect you do the same, unless you've grown tired of the futility and given up.

Oh, well. Back to this argumentative question. Hey, OZ, how's that no gun thing work out for you when the bad guys go rampaging in the outback, huh? Or all you city slickers that can't walk down YOUR streets after dark without having to find an armed buddy to join you? Feel safe in your fortified houses, do you? At least until you read about the armed home invasions two streets over. I guess then, you probably think, whew, well, at least it didn't happen on MY street.

Me, I'd shoot the invaders when they came in the door. Then it wouldn't happen on my street, either. And I'll bet when it starts on your street, it still won't be happening on mine.

And, oh, yeah. Don't call me when it does to come help out. I wouldn't want to invade your sanctum sanctorum with my horrible guns. You're on your own, bud. And, yeah, check in with 911. Average response time of 3-7 minutes for most cities MUST be quick enough to save your wife and kids from the baddies. Course I could get there in less than 1 minute, but I probably won't.

ABSOLUTLEY FREAKING SPOT-ON!!!!

You must watch Glen Beck instead of the LSD-infused Kool-Aid that inspires the Lamestream Media outlets! brahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!

Nope. No Glen Beck. Not enough time in life. But, I've heard great minds run alike.

Now if I could just figure out where I left that one ...

We rednecks, armed with home grown guns, beat your progenitors all the way back across the ocean. And about 170 years later, we had to come over and help YOUR sovereign forces drive Hitler back into the barrel.

So I guess us Rednecks must be able to whip a whole lot that seems bigger than ourselves. And we stay ready. We gonna be able to do it, if needed? No one ever knows for sure before it happens, but WE know we are going to be ready, and we AREN'T going to give up!!

And while we're on the subject of weapons, didn't YOUR home government have to make it law that you can't carry swords around in public, because they were being used in street fights? Just last year, I believe.

Only proves one thing. You might not have mass shootings. Shoot, you might not even have mass stabbings, but in Japan, less than 5 months ago, they did. No guns, so the guy stabbed a bunch of kids and teachers. ALL of this proves one thing. Take away guns, hide guns, destroy guns, and nothing changes except the CHOICE of weapon the evil men CHOOSE to do the EVIL they CHOOSE to do.

Notice a common thread here of Man's CHOICE?

A man convinced against his will is a man of the same opinion still (said by a wiser man than I, but one whose name I don't know), and the man who chooses evil will not be stopped by the disarmament of the man who chooses to do right. He may, though, be deterred by the strength and commitment, and READINESS of the man who chooses to do right.

And if that is ALL I get from my effort, even if it kills me, but puts my neighbor in position to stop him once and for all, it is worth the sacrifice.

You see, we WILL sacrifice ourselves to keep the peace, prosperity, safety, and security of our families, ourselves, and our nations.

But we also know that locking everything away is useless when the door gets broken down at 2:00 a.m. and everyone is suddenly awakened by armed intruders. On the other hand, when the door on the ground floor is the source of the noise, and there are weapons ready to hand on both the upped and lower floors, we stand a much better chance of getting out alive, and keeping them at bay long enough for duly constituted authority to arrive.

Oh, yeah, one other thing. I dont' know about where you live, but here in America running out into the street at night and yelling something like "Help, they're inside killing my family" might bring neighbors out to see what's going on, and might get a call to 911, and if that happens, pretty much WILL get a police car or more on scene within 8 or 10 minutes.

But firing a gun, even once, in most of our neighborhoods in the city, which, after all, is where the invasion or assault is most likely to occur, will usually bring the police within seconds.

So, they even work as signalling devices.

But only if they are ready and available,.

And, nope, never has been a mass shooting anywhere I've been. But if there had, it wouldn't have lasted long enough for the shooter to switch magazines.

The sad part is that you really believe what you're saying there.

Fortunately you can't convince the rest of civilised society that you're not quite mad.

Well. Thanks. At least by saying "the rest of civilized society" you included us yanks and rednecks in civilized society.

For that, you have my thanks.

And I don't expect to convince anyone. In the course of things, it is sometimes useful merely to answer that "shot fired across ones bow" in order to ensure that all and sundry know the first stated view is not the only view held.

I would reiterate, were it necessary, the ditty about a man convinced, but suffice it to say here, it holds as true regardless of who is attempting to convince whom.

You ARE entitled to your opinion.

Thanks again for including us among the civilized IN that opinion.

Here is some info that didn't come out of Hollywood. There was a lot of conflict and debate during the birth of my country. Some nation-states did not want the Constitution or Federation for fear of what it could become. Imagine that! (Remember each of the thirteen colonies was its own nation by virtue of the treaty ending the American Revolution.) Some states would not ratify the Constitution without the Bill of Rights. But there were many who were against the Bill of Rights, because they believed those rights and more already existed and by listing these few could exclude others not directly expressed. This is why the 9th amendment was included. Still some states did not ratify the Bill of Rights for 150 years.

So some of the founding fathers included the Bill of Rights with the Constitution. It is by design, intended to limit the scope and power of the federal government. The Right to Bear Arms came from the Virginia Declaration of Rights - "well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state." So militia means the entire able bodied community. Although there is no law compelling citizens to be armed, it is not only their right, but since "all power is vested in, and consequently derived from, the people ..." it is their duty, to bear arms.

You need not worry about this too much, though. Many traitors see these documents as "out of date" and "written by people who could not imagine the world today." (In spite of the fact that many concerns and predictions, of the Founders, have come to pass.) The documents currently hang by a thin thread above a crosscut shredder and there are some really bad people running around with scissors.

My sister was in Australia a few months ago for her daughter's wedding and she presented a slightly different picture. She said rapes and home invasion have increased, and thieves no longer wait for people to leave their homes, figuring they can force them, at knife-point, to open their safes. Well at least they only have knives, that's a relief! (until they force you to open your safe.) I use a biometric safe, to prevent unauthorized use, while maintaining accessibility.

If you're looking for a smoking gun for the tragedies being used to dismantle our Bill of Rights, you need to look no further than the psychotropic drugs being peddled by our pharmaceutical companies. I think you will find them complicit in many of the "incidents" you refer to.

If a Yank or a Redneck is someone who by nature is equally free and independent, and has certain inherent rights, such as the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety, then I'm good with that.

G'day

With their self-imposed carbon tax, they are too busy scrounging money to pay for necessities such as ammo.

Has anyone seen the NPR series on Puerto Rico? Guns here are extremely regulated. I don't think rifles are permitted. We run about 1200 murders/yr. Just under 4 million people. In the past 10 years 1700 (10% of the force).. police have been convicted of some sort of corruption, up to and including performing hits. Hits are NOT defined as being in the top 10 salsa songs. (Dirty Harry would need an M60).

Oops. Envelope Guy must have used a dictionary. He used two words of more than two syllables. Amendment, and Regulated. Course, I didn't have to look them up to know how to spell them, what they meant, nor how many syllables they have. Just had to go back and check.

That's one part of his education he seems to have gotten. The one in school. Its the one in real life he missed. Failure of the educational system, I guess.

Insults are the last resort of a person who has lost the argument.

Okay I have to say something and chime in or my head will come off.
Moosie - The stats on Australia are mind boggling. Your post is dead-on (pun intended) because the entire island has gone (back) to the criminals.
Crime is up in almost every category and statistic across the spectrum, and we know that to be true because it is being touted as progress by the liberal Australian media.
Further, the general view we get here in the USA media seems to be that the Aussies are happy with this. The Aussies beat their chests and brag about their sharpshooting prowess and "two-shots-is-too-many." Guys like Bwilko like to put down America and American's rights to buy a rifle that will shoot more than one or two bad guys without reloading.
Meanwhile Australians a failing, miserably and daily, to prove that criminals are easily and best stopped with frying pans and sticks and harsh language. If the Australian "we shoot better than Americans" bragadocio were true, it must only apply to their murdering thugs, not the family man trying to defend his own, because the criminals are winning the shooting contests.

Australia has a much lower violent crime rate than some other developed nations, such as the United States and the United Kingdom. - wikipedia

There's the truth, then there's what the NRA says...

Interesting firearm history in Germany....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Germany

I wonder if the Jews would have fought back, if they hadn't been disarmed. Probably.

Lyn - If you own some "modern automatic hand guns" can I please come shoot some? I've never had the chance to shoot a machine pistol. We should have a CR4 2nd Amendment Pig Shoot and Barbeque. We already have them in Texas every weekend, all we need now is invitations and a banner.
For the rest of the CR4 community who support the constitution and have weighed in on this topic -Unless you own BATFE NFA Class III "modern automatic hand guns" please don't feed the stupidity of the detractors and the media by mis-labeling your revolvers or semi-automatics as "automatic" anything.
If it's one-squeeze-one-shot, then the only thing automatic about that is the negative media reaction.

OK, OK. I forget how tough the audience is here.

Semi-automatic then.

Hey Lyn Wait!!! What about the barbecue???

I've got a pile of Mesquite Wood stacked out back. Let me know 12 hours before you and the beer get here and I'll start the fire.

I agree with you completely.

Thank you Lyn, it's good to see that some sanity prevails down Arkansas way.

For the record, I live in Arizona. I just hail from Arkansas and still own property there.

Arizona law allows any one who can buy a gun to carry it concealed. Not exactly, but close enough. You need no permit, or training, to pack concealed weapons here. Of course it's always been legal to carry a pistol or rifle in the open, in public.

Arkansas isn't much stricter, and I heard today that the Arkansas House passed a law allowing church goers to keep their guns with them in church. Just in case a there's a disagreement during the sermon. Arkansas House passes bill to allow guns in churches

Now I'll get flamed to keeping the thread OT.

_{I'm out too.}