Network Conduit Secured with Wire Ties

Nylon zip ties are a common fastener for "freewire" installations of cabling (cabling not installed in conduit).

Flexible conduit is still conduit and must be mounted with listed fasteners.

Ask the installing contractor to provide evidence that his nylon fasteners are listed to support flexible conduit.

Could you refer me to the standard? Thanks.

NO, Your quite right to question this, just not here. Get your contractor to do thier job or get someone who knows what they are doing to do it.

I did not mean to say your as in you. Sorry for the miss print.

Asking your contractor to quote a code that applies to your project is like asking your mechanic to explain the factory warranty. You the owner, need to spec the job and standards. Here is exactly the right place to ask for guidance information. I wish I knew the code. Since they are IT conductors, I believe they need "adequate" support, which would of course vary with size and distance. I wish I could quote the code, but I too would like to see it.

PFR,

I respectfully disagree with the comparison. The auto warranty is a contract between the manufacturer and the owner of the vehicle; the mechanic is contracted to the owner. The code is a legal requirement that binds the contractor to rules of materials and workmanship independently of the owner.

--JMM

Troyalec,

In the USA, the standard is the NEC. In it, is the general requirement that if a listed or approved product is available to do the job, then it must be used. Furthermore, the use must be within the permission or rules attached to the listing or approval. Since there are many conduit hangars listed or approved for supporting flexible conduit, any method of support that is not listed or approved cannot be used. So, the contractor does have the responsibility to satisfy your question by producing evidence that the zip ties have been listed or approved for use as a flexible conduit support method.

JMM

How do you prove that something is "listed" for a certain purpose?

Is it as simple as looking at the page in a catalog like Grainger that describes the product and its uses and then finding a UL label as well?

Thanks.

Troyalec,

A good question. Few contractors will have or have even seen the actual book(s) that contain all the listings of an organization such as Underwriters Laboratories (U/L). Look in the NEC to Article 90.7 Examination of Equipment for Safety; Article 100 Definitions of Approved, Identified (as applied to equipment), Labeled, and Listed; and Article 110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation and Use of Equipment. These have some of the general approaches the code uses. It is impossible for the code (NEC) to spell out in detail all the materials that can or cannot be used in each instance, or all the ways in which something is supposed to be done. Instead, the code is a specification document telling (more-or-less) the standards by which the completed project is to be measured by--as opposed to a how-to-do-it manual.

Regarding the installation of communication cables, Article 800 applies. This article is a part of chapter 8, and as noted in Article 90.3, chapter 8 is independent of the requirements of most of the rest of the code, except as specifically referenced. Look at Article 800.3 & 800.6, which refer specifically to 110.3 and a part of 300. 800.48 talks about raceways and requires non-metallic ones to be fire resistant (by reference to 800.51(L). Support of communications wires cannot be by any method of attachment to the outside of conduits or raceways--Article 800.52(E).

Back to your question about proving if something is "listed". This will take a little "digging"--first to the manufacturer to find out who is listing the product (such as U/L or FM, or CSA, or...) and then to get the text of the actual listing. Often you would then have to look at the listing agency's data to get any clarifications and related requirements. As a practical matter, if it is a zip tie, is it fire retardant or not--only fire retardant ones can normally be used (and are often specifically inspected for by the local authorities).

--JMM

If you use the NEC as your standard, you can reference articles 300.11 as well as 314.

Abe was right..just look at the last election for proof...

What type of ceiling?Suspended acoustic tile?Lay in tiles?

If so, it should not be exposed,rather should be above, and not supported by the wires that hold the tile grid.It should have it's own support back to a roofing support member.

Consult your local Authority Having Jurisdiction.He has final authority.If this is in a Federal Building, forget about it.They pay no attention to the NEC or common sense.

Network cables are inside of a flexible, orange, plastic conduit (approx 1-1/2" dia) and secured to steel roofing support members with black plastic wire ties (zip ties).

You are probably OK with that installation based on your description; I would clear it with your local Electrical Inspector.

The only caveat is the zip tie color. Black is fine if your above ceiling area is not a return air plenum.

If your above ceiling IS a return air plenum, they should have used maroon colored zip ties, which are plenum rated.

"...maroon colored zip ties, which are plenum rated."

Color is not a universal indicator. 3M makes plenum-rated ties in "natural" (white) and black.

Looks like you are correct. I've never seen them in black and white, which matches standard zip ties.

That will make it hard on the inspector in determining plenum compliance.

Don't know the specs but in the UK the authorities (mainly fire brigade) allow plastic ties but insist on metal ties every so often so that it won't all collapse in a fire.

OK,

You said ORANGE CONDUIT? That normally denotes fiber optic cables,so:

Here's the info on fiber optic cable,reference the NEC:

http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/NEC-HTML/HTML/Article770OpticalFiberCable~20030108.htm

I think it will answer most of your questions,and lead you to answers that it does not address directly.

Some are approved for some applications, some are not. Have you thought about electrical permit?

Most "Orange Duct" I've seen is interduct. This is smaller conduit meant to run through a larger conduit - for example a 6" duct may have six 1" conduits installed to separate different runs. Is this Orange Duct even proper for independent installation? Google "Orange interduct" and you will find manufacturers who should also describe proper mounting for their product.

In the USA most authorities having jurisdiction go by the National Electric Code. (NFPA 70). In the 2011 code article 378 applies to "Nonmetallic Wireways" (conduit). 378.30 Securing and Supporting describes the requirement. Article 376.30 describes the support requirement for "Metal Wireways".

The contractor is going to say "The code does not apply because computer wiring is not necessarily coved by the NEC." The answer is that you have no way of knowing if the wires inside a conduit are computer, power, telephone or what, so if conduit is installed, it must comply with the applicable code. -- JHF