Question About Engineering Careers and What Masters Degree to Get

At the company I just retired from with 29 years of service, Masters were NOT management (other then MBA, and then they were 2 drink minimum group).

Masters and PHDs worked in advanced technology department. Or specialists within their department of domain skill as principle engineers (requires 12+ years experience).

Your issue is there are minions of domain specialty knowledge. Your first job will lock you in. And many are not transferable unless you are extremely wide band, and then you can't get good at anything (unless your really that gifted). For example understanding avionics systems, and the safety criticality takes years to learn. And each system has unique system and safety requirements and regulatory compliance. There are specialty intellectual properties, this is not published, so you must work at a company to learn this. And then you are "type cast" in that technology, and if you move to another company, you will stay in that same area, as that's what would have value to a different company.

Your BS degree is just fundamental knowledge, and a 4.0 indicates nothing other then you could pass the courses as tested. It does indicate you are trainable. But there's no way to know if you are creative without a real job. Hopefully you will be well mentored, and make a difference after 5 years or so. A MS is just going down a single path of analysis, and is only useful if you can turn this into a job where this is used.

I should also say, go and work somewhere with your BS. This may be all you need. I'm concerned you want to get a MS and are asking what area to get this in. Prove to your self you can do design once your first job trains you.

What machines interest you currently?

What things do you understand the inner workings of?

If you can't answer either of the above, your not going to be a useful engineer, and will not survive in that arena. This would indicate you are smart but mis-degree'd. At least to me if I were to interview you as a new hire candidate.

If you don't have passion to want to know how everything works, your not going to be a good engineer, or scientist of any kind.

As a ME how many "things" have you taken apart to see whats inside? Are you good at fixing things?

Well Ignator, to answer your questions, a lot of machines interest me currently but I will tell you that I have a lot of experience modifying cars. I did a lot of testing with water/methanol injection, turbo-charging and stuff like that on my own time for a period of a few years. I almost researched and studied that kind of thing religiously and even tried to pioneer a hydraulic throw-out bearing setup for my car that was having issues with the clutch fork. This being said I also am really interested in gas-turbine/jet engines although not surprisingly I don't have any experience working on them.

Also, I am on the Baja SAE team right now for my university. I don't know if you are familiar with what that is but we basically design and build a vehicle from the ground up and take it to a competition where we compete with about 100 other different universities. Anyway I think it would be really cool to do something similar to this in real life, where I test and run FEA analysis of parts that I designed or that previous year's teams designed and then present my findings and/or test it. This is the kind of "Research and Development" thing that I think would be cool to do. Are there jobs out there that are like this? How can I get into something like that? And it doesn't necessarily have to be automotive related. Also do you know where a degree in Physics would fit in?

Sorry, as you did not indicate where you live, you could be someone who's never done anything, and because of culture, parents want you to be a medical doc, engr. or scientist, without ever having interest in these growing up.

So you didn't just end up in engr'g because your high school counselor gave you career advice.

I can' only say what I ended up doing (with EE) was getting job in avionics, as I had pilot training (which was foot in the door), and just happened to be interviewed by the autopilot group. They mentored me extremely well, as in the 80's they still had managers that evolved from the entry levels, and knew where the product had been and were directing where it was going. So they stuck me with collateral on the previous generation, and designed the factory/service center test equipment for the new generation. Did this for 5 years doing many rights of passage via good mentoring. Then work was slow, I got to work on the next box, which was a module card cage that had the AP box in it that I had previously did lots of analysis on, as well power supplies, serial data switches, flight management box, and maintenance computer box. I had to design the interconnect between them, and the lightning and HIRF filter box to the aircraft interconnect, as well the cooling air and heating control modules. And all of this I did integrated shake and bake testing. So I fell in the right hole at the right time, where I could take an infant design, test the quality into it, and knew how it all worked, as well the external systems. I became the expert on designing for compliance to the regulatory shake-bake standard testing, as well fixing design problems like radiate emission problems, or HIRF upset. Including vibration fixes and temperature altitude problems. I was lucky I worked with a dumb shit mechanical who took care of the foot work, but had no clue how to do all this testing. He was laid off from a different company, and worked on portable crane designs for his first 15 years, and just could not get into avionics packaging. I faught with him to prevent bad packaging. My customer was the guy installing this electronics bay product, as well the flight line mechanic. You need to make it easy to do, as the last thing you want is to break something else when swapping a box out.

THIS WAS DARN FUN. I loved analyzing field problems, the best day's were AOG (aircraft on ground) as you had to figure out the issue remotely, and with extremely poor descriptions of what the pilot or flight line mechanics were seeing, which then were relayed through field support engineering. It's what I was good at. And it was simple, know how the system works, not just the black box.

You seem to want to go in that same direction.

Do you really need more schooling? If your sharp you can do masters as well PHD work with just a BS, it's all your creativity and drive.

I know the MEs were playing with an ATV/Baja "toy" and competing back in the 80's while I was still there. I worked on heat pump research back then with MEs (master wanna-bees, i.e. they were graduate students) that had no clue how the refrigeration cycle worked, but could analyze the crap out them. Worked with a PHD director of all this who thought you could float mercury on water.

Degree in physics, real good, as engineers are applied physicists. We really should use that title instead of the steam engine operator title.

Thanks for your reply

But what about the engineers that are literally designing the new iPhone for apple, or the engineers at Jaguar who designed their new intelligent start/stop system or the Microsoft engineers whom failed with the Xbox 360 design which led to so many recalls. What kind of education do the engineers that are actually developing new things have that allows them to get there?

And, I have also always wondered why we're called "engineers" Doesn't really make sense.

Without being there and seeing how these flops were developed, I can only guess that the "team" had lots of artsy folks and engineers with no ability to think outside the box. As well schedule can cause real stupid things to happen. What did Steve Jobs do to keep the end product focus. He was able to get a large team to move in the right direction. But from seeing the TV programs on him, he was the driving force. You always need at least one of these people on a team. Without it you end up with a substandard product. It works, but not elegant.

As you are ME, software is a big missing hole. I don't recall if the MEs had to take Fortran in the late 70s early 80s, but I assume they did as analysis was moving in the computer direction then. Embedded design is where it's at. But if your on a team, there will be a EE, maybe a CE or comp sci person.

Everyone brings something to the design. Some good, some useless. But even bad ideas, if heard by the right person can cause a eureka happening. My style was brainstorming with the team and this included even the known useless, too many times they triggered something great by the thinkers.

In the end, I can't tell you what kind of education is needed. It's more how curious you are, and how good you are at thinking outside the box. Sometimes how good you are at stealing ideas you've seen in the past. I'm also a machinist, I bought my first lathe while still in school. This was the result of taking metal working in high school. but this was always my interest in making stuff, and fixing stuff. I think if anything that's the key, that you can fix almost anything. As then you are stealing ideas from every commercial/consumer product, and the inventiveness of many other creators.

I wouldn't call most of the new crop of graduates "engineers" either.

Data manipulators is more like it.

Engineers used to have grease under their fingernails and know what a wrench is used for. Now most of them just sit at a PC and type.

You sound more like someone who will actually get their hands dirty and DO something.

I'd talk to people who know you. Parents (remember, they've already made all the dumb mistakes and may help you steer clear of them), teachers, advisors, friends,etc.

SAE, ASM, and many other engineering organizations have student member groups. Join some of these, if not already a member and talk to some of the men and women who have already been in your position.

Do what you enjoy.

Good luck.

Concerning your direction, and to reitterate what Lyn said, do what you enjoy. what makes you tick, what really you really get excited about. Perhaps its cars, planes, big machines, small machines, doesn't really matter, but follow your passion.

I personally worked as a machinist for 20 years then went back to school to earn my BSME. Now, I design machines which is my passion.

Having said that the CEO of my company said live your life with integrity, honesty and have doing that

Possibly a little bit of an off the wall suggestion but what about a BS in computer engineering? You could try to have all projects related to instrumentation and analysis of something you are interested in (possibly cars). This would allow you to be advanced in a way that is different from most others.

Please note that there is a lot of truth to what the other poster said about your first job. Your first job will probably type cast you and you will probably never move too far away from it.

Your missing link is ........ take training on PLC/SCaDA programming courses - this will greatly help in your carreer.

Im also a mechanical engineer, and i push my self to know this area thru self study and help from my control staff.

[quote]Your missing link is ........ take training on PLC/SCaDA programming courses - this will greatly help in your carreer.[/quote]

My emphasis is electro-mechanical and I do a lot of work with ladder logic and PLCs but I don't know what SCaDA is

The posts above are spot on. If you have a desire to find out how things work and you are quality driven, you will be a good engineer. Remember that you can be an absolute genius, but if you can't communicate your ideas to others, then you will fail and be frustrated.

I didn't go the route of a Masters in EE, but instead I went the business route (MBA). I did this, because I like engineering, but I also like business. My career has spanned from an automatic test equipment engineer, which evolved into program management and budgeting. I then went into my own business as a retail store owner. I retired young and dabbled in the stock market. I finally stumbled into being an auto consultant, which I truly love doing (I'm amazed I get paid to do this). I also own and manage rental properties, which I enjoy tremendously. And I am also involved in my local community as the President of our Civic Association, a board member of two civic associations and a board member of our local school.

I don't do any engineering work now, nor have I done so for years. I don't design circuits, build prototypes or envision new creations. I do use my engineering while repairing my homes (why does the copper pipe turn green?) and in my auto consulting business (why does the Ford Focus keep dropping valve seats?). This is the problem solving side of me and I don't think it would've been possible without an engineering degree.

I went to a four year engineering/architecture/law private college where we learned about engineering/science, as well as literature, philosophy, business, etc. Granted, my education was not as rounded as some of my friends who went to the State University, however I believe it has enough variety to give me a basis, where I feel comfortable talking to nearly anyone about any topic. For instance, I recently had a discussion with a Board member about banking, specifically local banks vs credit unions vs TBTF banks. I'm not an expert in this subject, but I understood what he was talking about and I had quite a bit to add to the conversation. Ditto for my recent discussion with the Director of the local school. We talked about the kids having a full rounded education and the overemphasis on standardized testing.

My recommendation is to find out what you love doing. Don't accept a job, just because the pay is good or the commute is easy. Your first few years will be becoming good at a specific field and later if you want to change to another field, you will have much more difficulty than would be expected. Remember that work needs to be something you enjoy doing. Also remember that you may enjoy doing something on your free time, but when you are forced to do it (work), you may not enjoy it so much. I know I would hate to lay tile or install cabinets for a living, however I enjoy doing it on my own properties.

One final observation. Most engineers design a piece of a larger item (or software program). Sometimes you don't know anything about the end item; all you know is how your part interfaces with other parts. For me, this is not something I enjoy doing, because I like seeing what the outcome is. You may be on the team that designs the new iWatch, however your job may be to design the antenna, a special connector or circuit mounts. You may not even know you're working on the iWatch - all you know is that your piece must interface per the specs.

I hope this helps.

First of all I would like to give you kudos on your career choice. We need more engineers and less lawyers , I could go on, but will not.

I have been in R&D for 20+ years and I love it and could not imagine doing anything else. I am a Mechanical Engineering Technologist and have achieved great success with that level of education gaining 6 patents and such. Having said that! If I was to do it over, I would have acquired a higher level of education. This is not because I want higher pay but as an inventor/R&D Engineer, I know enough to make me ask more questions than I have answers for. Do to this I spend allot of time researching the answers to my question rather than applying the basic knowledge that would have come with a higher degree.

As far as ending up in a management position due to the higher degree, these are choices that you make in your pursuit of employment and one that you have control over.

Go for the degree!

Any of those educational achievement letters that you can successfully attach to or add after your name may initially help you pass the door and be accepted into a work place. On the same token, none of those letters can gurantee that you'll be successful and function effectively in that work environment! Bear in mind that the academic world is and will be quite different to the real world!

As far as schooling, if you have taken engineering management as part of your course work in BSME, in my experience MBA is a lot easier as compared to an MS in engineering for an advance degree. An MS will help you get and be more in-depth /advance in the mechanical field. Undergraduate works are just the basics, or fundamentals of things.

Now having said that, you need also to understand that education is only going to be a part that determine the future of an individual.. Your personality, drive, initiave, motivation, inquisitiveness, determination, etc. and other behavioral aspects or characteristics of an individual that will serve as the key determining factors for your success.. It is you that counts, the rest are just icings or dressings that just makes you look attractive...You as a whole person!

Most of my undergraduate studies were in EE, although I graduated in Physics, as I had decided to teach. During my EE studies, I was required to take several machine shop and welding classes, so I would know how to build things I designed, and that has been the key to my life! I taught for 32 years, during which time I built and repaired many scientific devices, and learned and taught some computer programming. When I retired from teaching, a small start-up company found me. With no engineering degree, I'm now approaching 20 years as their principal engineer. I'm no longer their only engineer, nor their most experienced engineer, but the fact that I can design and build and repair and program keeps me doing the most interesting onesy-twosy projects. Obviously I'm well past retirement age, but I see no reason to retire; I'm having too much fun doing my 'work'.

Thus my advice is to broaden your knowledge as much as possible. If you can solve a wide range of different problems, and build what you design, you will be valuable to your company. With a very small company, there is of course the danger that they may go out of business, but the advantage is that you will be able to do a much wider range of jobs, and possibly complete them either by yourself or with a very small team, while in a large company you will likely have a much narrower range of activities/possibilities.

I remember the words of our Head of Department that before doing MSc, at least do the job in the Industry at least two years.

There are many advantages if you work in Industry

1. Get aware of the present Technology utilized in the Industry.

2. Working in Industry would gave you an insight about the upcoming technologies

3. Also gave an insight about the technology declared to be outdated in the near future

4. Boost your confidence

5. Looking at the various application, certainly make you curious that how these equipment are designed/sized and what modification could be done.

6.There is no alternative to Industrial experience

7. In Industry, information will be transformed in to knowledge.

Therefore I am of the view that first work in the Industry for 3 to 4 years and then start you MSc. At that time you will be in a better position to decide which field will be better for me.

I did my BSc in 2008 and started my MS in 2012 and now I really enjoy my MS and feel the differnece when I look at the other Class mates having no experience of Industry

Del the cat said (I paraphrase, plonk down some entity of your mind). A type of scenario: 1. Get a one or two year day job (maybe on the university internship program). 2. Get a used Buell twin (interested? Research it for yourself). 3. MSF course (one weekend, a must) plus Ride Safe program plus MSF Experienced Rider (stay safe). 4. Trackday training. 5. Modifications. More Trackday training. 6. Send resume to Erik Buell Racing who wants energized ME/EE's. This scenario has been working for decades, he has MBAs and MEs as riders and employs super-tech. No response needed if you have not researched Erik Buell, Buell Motorcycles and Erik Buell Racing. Pure engineering adrenaline.