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Paper Planes

03/13/2013 8:42 PM

Via the TV show QI I recently saw a most odd paper plane. None of the usual 'dart' shape, this was a 'ring shape'. It's suposedly the best gliding model possible. I'll give the original link, though there are many more others on the internet of a similar type. Can anybody explain how this thing works ? As said, many similar links can be found,this is just the one I Just saw. Fast-forward the linked clip and look in awe. Can anybody explain ?

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#1

Re: Paper Planes.

03/13/2013 8:51 PM

Gyroscopic principles apparently that allow for a more stable flight.

Link.

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#2

Re: Paper Planes.

03/13/2013 10:27 PM

How about this model aircraft

link

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Paper Planes.

03/13/2013 10:38 PM

Ahh that brings back memories of early experiments with aeroplane designs.

I just love the link, back then women knew their place..................allowing the husband to hot dip galvanise steel in the kitchen sink and drying using their hair dryer! (page 190)

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#6
In reply to #3

Re: Paper Planes.

03/14/2013 2:38 AM

Yes, back to a time when do-it-yourselfers did their own car maintenance, and general consumer stuff repair. I missed the galvanizing article. Hardware stores that used to stock zinc ingots don't seem to exist anymore. That last good hardware store in my local town went bankrupt in the mid 80's

I found my self getting lost in time whenever I get into an old Pop. Mech. My great uncle used to subscribe to this, then gave them to me. Had a big set from the 50s. The current publication is nothing like these old ones. This is the one thing I admire google for, until the copyright police told them to stop scanning in old publications. At least that's how I thought it was left. I'm still waiting for the internet to be a big free online library.

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#4

Re: Paper Planes.

03/13/2013 10:49 PM
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#5

Re: Paper Planes.

03/14/2013 12:04 AM

It certainly must have something to do with the Magnus effect...a few of these turbosails were built and tested...

It would seem the spin would be very important for success, as well as a slight angle of attack on the flight path...

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#7

Re: Paper Planes.

03/14/2013 5:48 AM

Thanks, folks, some great links. Bearing in mind this thing is chucked like an American football, is this the Magnus effect ? There certainly seems to be some sort of vortex going on, but the plane doesn't seem to curve in a trajectory ('bend it like Beckham') that adds up to this. The lionk I gave is a bit crap, but the plane looks to go fairly straight.

Watch carefully how the thing travels - it's not curving to one side, and it doesn't even seem to get some sort of parabolic trajectory (the norm for paper plane records). I'm probably missing some obvious point, but good as the comments are I'm still not understanding what is going on with this thing.

I fear it could be time for weekend experimenting. Some of the variations on this model that I mentioned don't seem to need the spin. They have an almost delta wing tail, and from what I could see don't need the spin.

I'm a little short on aircraft hanger space here - the nearest big hall is the local church and I'm not sure this will go down a storm with the Vicar ! Still, he's got to take a break sometime (). It would be fun to hear what results anybody else can get from trying the described model versus a more conventional style.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Paper Planes.

03/14/2013 8:39 AM

You don't live near one of these?

I visited the former Royal Airship Works at Cardington Bedfordshier, England in 2004...big place.

Drew K

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#9
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Re: Paper Planes.

03/14/2013 3:30 PM

I'll have a go, but I may be restricted to my padded cell !

Seriously, it's the daftest looking plane ever, and I still can't figure how it works so good. The weekend is going to be paper mayhem here unless I get some answers !

This is going to be a case of, 'I'll show you me mine, if you show me yours' . My favourite plane fold looks nothing of the sort. All things being well, I'll try and construct and photograph my best efforts.

I'm still waiting on a good explanation of how such a mad looking thing glides thru the air.

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#36
In reply to #8

Re: Paper Planes.

03/23/2013 11:27 AM

Used to live near there. Landed my Astra at Shuttleworth Collection (just down the road) one morning....

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#10

Re: Paper Planes

03/14/2013 4:56 PM

It flies, therefore:

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#11
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Re: Paper Planes

03/15/2013 3:59 AM

Trust me, I have to go experimental It'l be bad !

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#12

Re: Paper Planes

03/15/2013 5:10 AM

Soooo, back in the late 60s early 70s Whamo Corp. made one of these in plastic, chrome plated. It was the diameter of about a hardball, and I still own one. My brother and I went through about 3 of them before we figured out how to throw it ( we are male, who needs directions!!? ). I will say once we got the hang of it we thought it was more fun to toss around the yard than a Frisbee. When you got a little bit of cross wind it would be all over the place, dipping, jigging sideways, up, down.....maybe that is the reason the design never made it to full size planes.

Cheers!!

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#13
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Re: Paper Planes

03/15/2013 5:47 AM

Chrome plated is a bit 'up-market' for what I have in mind, but it has a certain panache .

I may be mistaken, but didn't the whole frizbee thing start with kids on campus in America chucking pie dishes ? Sign 'o' the times that folk now go out and pay a few quid for some plastic thing.

Back in my day we just got a stick and a hoop. I'd bait Del by suggesting that in his day he even had to make the hoop, but I'd better not because he'll see that comment and tell me it was even worse !

Sorry to all the Arospace fans if this seems a bit trivial/silly, but I'm intrigued to know how/why these ring shaped gliders seem to work so well. It looks completely 'wrong', but from the videos I've found it simply works. In my limited knowledge, I still can't figure out why.

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#17
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Re: Paper Planes

03/15/2013 9:32 AM

This , to me , is a MOST "re-eye-opening" thread.....

Somewhere between 8-and-10 years ago, I began a search online for a "Nerf-sort" of toy, that shot a foam-type of "can-grenade" for a couple hundred yards.

The searching was difficult, because I had only seen the TV ad ONCE ... about a week or so before, and I couldn't remember the name to save my life.

Not only could I not find it online, but, I never saw the ad again either, which led me to believe that *somebody* pulled-the-plug on the toy IMMEDIATELY...(!)

Then it dawned on me ...

< this post has been snipped >

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Paper Planes

03/15/2013 9:38 AM

Hey! What happened to the rest of the post?

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#20
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Re: Paper Planes

03/15/2013 11:38 AM

...!... The tv ad jumped from a "back-yard" setting (shooting across the yard at a padded {e.g. 'archery'} target , to a football field, where the 'nerf-type' (a 'tough' foam-like) ordnance was fired from one end-zone through-the-uprights at the other end of the field!

Who'd-uh pulled the plug on such a product...?!

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#19
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Re: Paper Planes

03/15/2013 11:22 AM

This is how conspiracy theories start...

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#14

Re: Paper Planes

03/15/2013 8:41 AM

We made these with soda cans. cut the top off with a can opener leaving the heavy ring and carfully cut the bottom off. These were great fun for "wars" in the warehouse.

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#15
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Re: Paper Planes

03/15/2013 8:46 AM
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#16
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Re: Paper Planes

03/15/2013 8:54 AM

Quick! Gimme a can... (Before we get a desertation on how to make one with cross laminated Yew....)

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#23
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Re: Paper Planes

03/16/2013 6:53 AM

Excellent ! I'm going to have a real fun time over the weekend .

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#21

Re: Paper Planes

03/15/2013 12:07 PM

Hi Kris, have a look at "Flettner's Turbine" or golf, bowling,& baseball spin theories. The flying tube thing looks as though it might have something in common with them!

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#22
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Re: Paper Planes

03/16/2013 6:51 AM

Thanks, Gerry, I'll check it out .

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#24

Re: Paper Planes

03/20/2013 5:07 PM

Several people have mentioned or alluded to the Magus effect, but, it's clear that this barrel plane does not rely on it. Some similar planes do not spin at all: look at ignators link to a more complex powered model:-

If the plane from the original post is intended to be spun when thrown then it is done about an axis parallel to the direction of flight in order to give the thing stability.

However it is possible to make a flying toy which does rely on the Magus effect. You just need the cardboard tube from the middle of a toilet roll, some tape and an elastic band.

Make a "hook & grip" from the tape by folding it

and cutting a small notch,

and, stick it to the tube: you may need some extra tape to ensure it holds firm.

Launch the thing by holding the grip under the tube and "catapulting" it the way you would "fire" anything else with an elastic band:

Made with a cardboard tube like this they "behave" quite well: normally they'll curve upward 'til they stall then drop, but curve away again so that they "land" fairly flat.

But, if you experiment with longer smaller diameter tubes made from paper they can perform all sorts of acrobatics.

Don't expect any long flights though: I must try out a 2 litre drink bottle some time.

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#25
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Re: Paper Planes

03/20/2013 5:25 PM

Great post, Randall, have a well deserved GA !

I'm glad you confirmed my feeling that magnus effect was not the significant effect (direction of travel/spin). The original model does indeed mention the 'plane' being spun as it's thrown. Another very similar version has a v-shaped tailed and is more or less chucked like a cricket ball (without any spin).

Your gallant exploits are leaving me feeling a tad guilty - I got diverted over the weekend. Playing with a DIY vortex gun* is not much of an excuse, but it was the only indoor game I could get away with. I'll get some results posted as soon as I can.

*Cut the bottom off a plastic drink bottle then stretch something elastic (eg section of a party balloon) over the hole. Ping the elastic, and hey presto you can ruffle the dogs hair at 10 feet distance.

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#30
In reply to #25

Re: Paper Planes

03/21/2013 7:31 AM

I think the spin has more of a stabalizing effect than providing any lift.

Drew K

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#31
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Re: Paper Planes

03/21/2013 8:39 AM

Could be, though would it matter with something so light ? Oddly enough I'd mentioned messing about with an improvised vortex gun - perhaps the thing creates a vortex as it travels and that somehow adds to stability. I really have no idea ! The obvious answer to some of that is for me to get my act together and start chucking a few models about. Too windy outside, and my other half has sussed that I'm planning some indoor mayhem when she isn't looking !

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#33
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Re: Paper Planes

03/22/2013 10:25 AM

Perhaps I could convince my local university to play with some in a wind tunnel...

Commence indoor mayhem!

Drew K

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#34
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Re: Paper Planes

03/22/2013 5:38 PM

Go, Drew, Go !

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#26

Re: Paper Planes

03/20/2013 6:35 PM

I gave a GA also. This is off the subject a tad, but this is my fave. You can use the finger off of a nurses latex or similar gloves. Best ammo is a plastic Airsoft BB. Metal will do, as will pills etc. Tremendous range and speed. You just spread it over the top of the plastic pop bottle, cut off the botton, leaving about five inches. The finger of the glove goes into the bottle. Secure the finger with tape or a tight rubber band, or just hold it. Drop in a BB, rock or whatever. Have fun, but be careful, it is powerful, accurate, and potentially dangerous. Don't shoot anyones eye out.

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Pea-Shooter-out-of-a-Rubber-Glove

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#27
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Re: Paper Planes

03/20/2013 6:56 PM

ooh, bored patient toys for those stuck in hospital ! Pretty much all the materials could be easily found.

I was once in hospital and some kind of drip/feed came out. Bloody was spurting everywhere. Luckily some guy saw and hit the alarm by his bed, though even then it took what seemed like ages. Armed with a suitable version I'm sure a carefully pinged pill on matrons rump would have got immediate action.

It's OT, but a nicely fun thought. Nurses are generally brilliant at what they do, but you can't stop creative minds from thinking of fun stuff.

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Paper Planes

03/20/2013 9:24 PM

I always put winglets on my paper planes, as a child, and felt quite justified when they started putting them on passenger planes.

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Paper Planes

03/21/2013 4:09 AM

I had a liking for drawing the pilot, even though they seem to have already covered that one .

This may look fake, but a local club have a small section who delight in making the most unlikely shapes fly.

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#35
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Re: Paper Planes

03/22/2013 9:19 PM

Thanks for sharing, that was incredible!

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#32

Re: Paper Planes

03/21/2013 12:47 PM

Haven't tried it with the gysroscopic spin yet. Thrown with the seam down, it's stable most times, seems to be randomly affected by stray air flows (indoors). A small yaw angle and low starting speed are needed for a smooth flight.

Starting with A4-sized sheets (210 x 297 mm) I tried a series of tubes with variable number of folds vs. fold width. Best results around 5 folds x 25 mm. Guess the folds should not be pressed too much, so as to keep an airfoil shape. But the airfoil gets wrinkles when you roll up.

Can a 3D printer be used with pulp??

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