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Effect On Giving Two Phase 415 Volts Supply Instead of Single Phase and Neutral

03/27/2013 11:21 PM

Dear engineers

I have a spot welding machine "chowel" make. The name plate reads as 415 volts single phase as the input supply voltage. Since we dont have a single phase 415 Volts source we have connected it across two phases i.e, instead of connecting the input terminals across 415 Volts of phase & neutral source, i am connecting the input terminals across 415 volts phase to phase source. The welding machine appears to work without any problem. I have about 50 such machines and tha rating varies from 75 kVA to 150 KVA. To balance the laod on a three phase system, i have connected these wlding machines say 15 Nos.between phsae R & Y, 15 Nos. across phase Y & B amd the balance across phase B & R. My problem is that

1) I find that my current in phase B is almost twice that in the other two phases i.e., say phase R & Y take about 250 amps each, the current in phase B reads about 600 amps.

2) The KW reading in my 2 MVA DG set A<F panel is only about 400 kw but the current exceeds the rated full load current of the DF set and the DG set is tripping very often.

Suspecting the effect of harmonic currents we conducted a harmonic study using FLUKE power analyser. It is seen that the voltage jarmonic distrtion is less than 4 % while the CTHD is about 20 %. It is also seen that the active power reading in phase Y readings are coming in negative values (perhaps due to CT polarity)

On perusal of the techincal catalog of the welding machine, it is seen that the same employs a thyristor stack in only one line of the incoming wires (Out of the two lines) to the primary of the welding trfo. (i.e, if I assume that the welding trfo primary is to be connected across a phase and neutral wires, teh thryistor stack is provided only in the phase wire).

My questions are

1) Why do I get higher cirrent in phase B alone?

2) What will be effect of giving a two phase 415 volts uinput supply across the welding set which has thyristor stack in only one phase lead

Hope I am making myself clear. Expecting good solutions from all experinced andexperst please.

Ramesh.A

from India

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#1

Re: effect on giving two phase 415 volts supply insted of single phase and neutral

03/28/2013 4:06 AM

The loads simply need redistributing across the phases so that the B phase current approaches that of the other two phases. That way, the generator won't trip so often on the current in the B phase.

Everything else seems in order from the description given, in principle. Make sure that all circuit protection equipment is working correctly, and correctly adjusted.

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#2

Re: effect on giving two phase 415 volts supply insted of single phase and neutral

03/28/2013 6:08 AM

Did you try a 3ph to 2ph transformer?.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: effect on giving two phase 415 volts supply insted of single phase and neutral

03/28/2013 8:10 AM

Please explain.

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#4

Re: Effect On Giving Two Phase 415 Volts Supply Instead of Single Phase and Neutral

03/28/2013 1:06 PM

It looks like all you need to do is reconfigure your units to better balance the load over the three phases instead of just dividing them up by an equal number of units per phase.

As far as the harmonics and line distortion are concerned adding a few power correction capacitors across each phase near the most used machines would likely help clean things up a bit.

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#5

Re: Effect On Giving Two Phase 415 Volts Supply Instead of Single Phase and Neutral

03/29/2013 12:37 AM

Can I ask a stupid question? Where on the face of this planet is there such a supply as 415VAC single phase?

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Effect On Giving Two Phase 415 Volts Supply Instead of Single Phase and Neutral

03/29/2013 8:45 AM

It is mfd. by "American Chowel Industries" just google "chowel spot welding machine" you can go to their web site.

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Effect On Giving Two Phase 415 Volts Supply Instead of Single Phase and Neutral

03/29/2013 10:10 AM

Everywhere that uses a 240/415 three phase power system. In the US it's not uncommon to find machines rated for 480 single phase inputs and some parts of Canada can even have 600 volt single phase.

Connecting across any two phases while leaving the third unconnected is still a single phase connection.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Effect On Giving Two Phase 415 Volts Supply Instead of Single Phase and Neutral

03/29/2013 6:56 PM

OK so this may just be pedantics. In Australia this is called a two phase system. A single phase system has return to neutral. There is no return to neutral therefore is two phase not single phase.

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#13
In reply to #5

Re: Effect On Giving Two Phase 415 Volts Supply Instead of Single Phase and Neutral

08/19/2013 4:45 AM

the question as i understand it - pls correct me if im wrong - is instead of 415v to neutral, OP has 3 phase of 415Y/240 v and he wants to connect 240 on one phase to 240 on another phase, producting 415 between the two phases. this works fine, it just needs re-balancing.

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#6

Re: Effect On Giving Two Phase 415 Volts Supply Instead of Single Phase and Neutral

03/29/2013 1:46 AM

Install a 3phase to 1 phase transformer of sufficient capacity.

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#8

Re: Effect On Giving Two Phase 415 Volts Supply Instead of Single Phase and Neutral

03/29/2013 9:02 AM

Just connecting 15 welding units on each leg of the 3-phase power supply may be the cause of your problems due to the following reasons;

1. Welder ratings varies between 75 to 150 KVA - You need to check the total KVA load for each phase, be sure they are are equal. Do Not use the quantity of welders (no. of welding units) as the basis of your load distribution..

2. Check that all welding units are being turned ON and use when you do your measurements and loading analysis.

It is very possible that your problems are caused by the above 2 scenarios or situations?

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#11

Re: Effect On Giving Two Phase 415 Volts Supply Instead of Single Phase and Neutral

03/30/2013 9:11 AM

Technically this is a 415V, 2-phase rating not 1-phase, there seems to be some overload on the Y-B pair of the remaining 20Nos welding M/Cs.. Just re-arrange your set up and try to balance the loads.E.g redistribute the 150KVA units to the R and Y lines.

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#12

Re: Effect On Giving Two Phase 415 Volts Supply Instead of Single Phase and Neutral

08/12/2013 10:13 AM

Thanks everyone for thier valuable comments.

Sorry for the belated acknowledgement.

But still I feel that some one should clear my doubt with respect to impact on my power supply quality on account of providing a two phase connection across the primary of a trasformer which has a SCR pack on only one limb for current control

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