Previous in Forum: GMOs, Pesticides, and Food   Next in Forum: Spain Taxes Sunlight
Close
Close
Close
13 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 39

Copper Plating Lead

07/31/2013 8:31 AM

I shoot competitively and load my own ammo. As a pet project of sorts, I am looking to copper plate my own lead bullets. The state of the nation has kept ammunition and component prices high to say the least. I have everything I need for an experimental barrel plating setup. The only thing I will have to purchse is the CuSO4, which is easily accessible and inexpensive. My question is how much voltage and current are recommended for a starting point? I will be looking for 2-3 mil thickness once complete. The drum I have is 4" x 8" and will submerge in a 3 gallon copper sulfate solution. I am using #4 solid copper wire as as the anode. I understand that more juice = faster plating, but can compromise bond strength and cause blistering if done too fast. Any suggestions?

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: Plating
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - Old Member, New Association

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 1639
Good Answers: 73
#1

Re: Copper plating lead

07/31/2013 9:07 AM

Why would you copper plate the lead?

The switch to copper was made so that scavengers in nature, like the Condor, would not die from lead poisoning. For target shooting, you could use what ever the range would allow. But plating lead with copper is all for nothing when the bullet impacts something.

I don't know how concerned the shooting range would be about liability of the clean up of used lead bullets, but the real concern is when people go hunting with lead. Still, environmentalists worry about things like lead in their food too. But I haven't seen any environmentalists planting crops on a shooting range lately.

One advantage of using copper bullets is it may attract the jerks that would rip all your plumbing and wiring from your crawl space for scrap. Maybe we could convince them to grab the copper right out of the air......!

__________________
A great troubleshooting tip...."When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 39
#5
In reply to #1

Re: Copper plating lead

07/31/2013 11:27 AM

Copper plating reduces fouling, shoots cleaner, doesn't require lube, and is much less expensive than copper jacketed. Molybdenum sulfide is another option for coating lead bullets, but it is susceptible to high heat, fast-burning powders.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Analog and Digital Circuit Design Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - Transformers, Motors & Drives, EM Launchers Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Applied Electrical, Optical, and Mechanical

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 1207
Good Answers: 119
#2

Re: Copper Plating Lead

07/31/2013 10:16 AM

I understand the benefits of copper plating lead bullets. I'm certain you can accomplish this with a little experimentation and practice. The results should be acceptable for "practical" shooting. I'm skeptical you will be able to make the resulting slugs as precise and consistent as needed for competition shooting or precision hunting (tapered jacket for controlled expansion).

It's been (too) many years since I was actively shooting and there are many new technologies and environmental concerns. Home casting lead is pretty easy, but I have never tried copper plating the lead. Making non-lead composite jacketed slugs at home sounds like fun, but would probably be very difficult.

I find the changes over the last 3 decades (my time) quite interesting...

http://www.nosler.com/bullets

...assuming this link is at least somewhat representative of the current state-of-the-art.

Wish you good luck with your project.

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 39
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Copper Plating Lead

07/31/2013 11:23 AM

Thank you MJB. I agree on the good enough for "practical" shooting. I use copper jacketed boat-tail hollow point match grade bullets for long range rifle work, but for competitive shooting with a .45cal pistol at distances of 25 yds or less I should be good. Looking forward to experimenting with it and hopefully narrowing the process to achieve uniform consistency in plating thickness. Provided the copper is bonded to the lead, minimizing the overall diameter variation of the finished bullet will be key. Who knows, this might turn into a worthwhile business venture, or yard art...who knows.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#3

Re: Copper Plating Lead

07/31/2013 11:07 AM

Copper Plating Cast Bullets Pt.1 - YouTube

To learn more about EPi's copper plating solutions, GO HERE for general information on copper plating and GO HERE for information on E-Brite 200.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 39
#6
In reply to #3

Re: Copper Plating Lead

07/31/2013 11:39 AM

Lyn, the coffee pot is an awesome idea for heating and circulating the solution. Thanks for the links. Very helpful information.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Copper Plating Lead

07/31/2013 12:24 PM

Is 2-3 mils of Cu thick enough to stop fouling of the barrel?

I'm also guessing that you might still need a gas check for shooting the super hot loads.

Please keep us informed of your progress.

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 39
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Copper Plating Lead

07/31/2013 1:29 PM

I won't be loading anything super hot for competion. I have to make power factor in my division which is 165,000, calculated by multiplying bullet weight (gr) and velocity (fps). I shoot 230gr bullets so my minimum velocity is about 718. I load for a nominal of 750. I consistently achieve +/- 25 fps or less on deviation. Lighter loads with the heavy bullets, combined with fast burning powder = soft recoil = faster follow-up shots.

2-4 mils is desirable for enough hardness and durability, given the load I am shooting. I would go thicker if I were loading hot (eg: 900+ fps).

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#9

Re: Copper Plating Lead

08/02/2013 6:37 AM

Eventually, once the bugs are ironed out (bullet cleaning being one of them I would guess!), you might consider buying a mould where you can simultaneously form 5 or even 10 bullets together on a "tree", copper plate them, then cut them off the tree.....

It will speed the process up by a factor or 5 or 10.....not to be sniffed at!!!

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 39
#10

Re: Copper Plating Lead

08/02/2013 7:28 AM

I am closer to getting this thing up and running, but still need a little more info, specifically regarding solution component ratios, and voltage & current. The heated solution consists of copper sulfate crystals dissolved in distilled water with sulfuric acid to adjust the pH to ~2. Any insight on a "recipe" for the solution, and/or voltage/current? Amperage/sq ft is critical, but I don't know the impact of voltage (ie: what's the difference in plating with 5V @ 2A/sqft vs 24V @ 2A/sqft....other than the obvious of course)

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 558
Good Answers: 14
#11

Re: Copper Plating Lead

08/04/2013 1:07 PM

Have you undersized your original cast forms to allow for the plating or do you think the additional thickness will not have any sideffect on the bullets travel down the bore/barrel. As in speed and pressure, do you not think this will have an effect. Ask a guy whom has stovepiped one due to oversized jacketing it isn't fun and a waste of a good weapon.And DANGEROUS. Duke

__________________
Four boxes keep America Free The soap box, The ballot box, The jury box, & The cartridge box.
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 39
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Copper Plating Lead

08/05/2013 7:37 AM

Great question Duke. Additional thickness will definitely have an effect. The goal is 2-4 mils of copper, increasing the diameter of the bullet 4-8 mils. One of two solutions for that challenge will be used, one being the machining of an undersized mold and the other being resizing the bullets themselves after plating. The approach I am taking now is to experiment with the setup I have to really define my process and achieve a uniformly consistent plating quality and thickness from batch to batch. Money is the reason for my approach. I have been able to acquire everything needed for an experimental barrel plating setup at no cost, minus the copper sulfate crystals which I can purchase for $13 per 32 oz at the hardware store. I'll resize the first few batches.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 558
Good Answers: 14
#13

Re: Copper Plating Lead

08/05/2013 2:18 PM

Here is a trick we use to use. Use an open end mold and drive a thin sheet of copper into each bullet mold then pour, waha laa you have a copper jacket lead filled then roll over the excess copper then drive them through a sizing die to finished size. lots faster then plating. Duke

__________________
Four boxes keep America Free The soap box, The ballot box, The jury box, & The cartridge box.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 13 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Andy Germany (1); jcwelch111 (6); LOCKDUKE (2); lyn (2); mjb1962853 (1); NotUrOrdinaryJoe (1)

Previous in Forum: GMOs, Pesticides, and Food   Next in Forum: Spain Taxes Sunlight

Advertisement