Women in Engineering Roles- Study?

Hello, shersh. I'd start by reviewing MillMatt's excellent blog entry and, importantly, the comments. In particular, there are some great links in Comment #35 by a user named AnnafromA2. Hope this helps.

Moose,

Looks like quite a thread you have sent me. Thanks.

I want to read and digest all before comment..

Moose, Thanks for your kind words on my blog, Common Purposes, and the particular discussion you reference "At Colleges, Women are Leaving Men in the Dust" (but NOT in engineering).

Shersh, please be mindful that my post wasn't so much about women in engineering but women NOT in engineering. For whatever reason, and I still don't know the reason, women have made great strides in medicine, law, politics, accounting, finance and many other professional endeavors but there is still a paucity of women in engineering.

What is the interest that lead you to post your question?

MillMatt

Hi Millmatt,

My role in life is as a corporate matchmaker. I have been discussing with my clients strategic talent management. To that end I have been doing searches for Engineers of late ( especially "managers of" ) and have found few women . I suspected what was happening and wanted to understand the prevailing perspectives.

shersh

Shersh,

Please share more on your perspective, knowledge and thoughts on this matter! Alas, it may be that the feedback you have received here has corroborated your personal finding that there are few women engineers and fewer female technical managers; and, maybe you'll leave it at that. BUT, there is an enormous opportunity here for your clients, for women and for the engineering community.

While there may be some sociological/cultural issues (i.e. - the toys we are given as a child) that influence career choices, I do not believe those are the primary drivers of the career choices women have made. My thought is that many men have chosen not to pursue engineering careers for the same reason that women have chosen not to pursue engineering careers. As such, whatever we learn from this study of women's career choices will have implications for all of us, for industry and for our collective futures.

Regards,

MillMatt

it depends to what extent you want it to be defined , there are many women in engineering who has marked their place well in terms of contribution to engineering and they have enjoyed quite a good level also. it will be justified if you will compare with there numbers in engineering study. but i agree to one point that total percentage women study engineering is less compared to other decipline ,i think there is natural liking of the subject .

I am also interested in this issue. I believe that IEEE has a lot of reports regarding this issue; you may want to check IEEE webpage.

Moose, MillMatt and others, thanks for an interesting discussion and pelyu TN is correct, the IEEE and Power Engineering Society have published many studies and reports on women in engineering and make great efforts to encourage women to enter the field.

My thoughts may be a little different. In a sense, I believe engineers (regardless of gender) are born with the fundamental characteristics that ultimately result in their becoming engineers through education, opportunity and environment. In my view, the opportunities, rewards, importance of, and all the other aspects of careers in the physical sciences, engineering and technical fields should be emphasized for everyone, beginning as early in the education process as possible.

There are certainly many women who possess the inherited technical genes (lacking a better description) and many men who do not. Those who do gravitate to science and engineering; given the opportunity and those who don't will enter other fields.

One final thought, an engineering degree from an accredited college or university does not an engineer make. I've known many graduate engineers over the years who were not, nor did they ever plan to be, engineers. (They usually ended up in management, sales or marketing). I've also known many truly gifted, creative engineers who never had formal engineering degrees.

Hi shersh ,

You are interested in North America , but his link for UK data may be of some use perhaps. I have not explored the link , but it does appear to carry information such as that you seek (albeit UK specific).

I'd like to add one slightly off topic comment. I read the link to another thread about paucity of female Engineers. Whilst I can't explain that , I would suggest that a factor is the toys we give children to play with. With an Engineering and Science readership things may be slightly different , but in general it is possible to guess a child's gender by their toys. Most shops and catalogues have clearly defined sections of 'masculine' and 'feminine' toys. I would suggest , on this basis alone , that nurture is a primary factor in this situation (which is to the loss of us all). I believe that things are slowly changing , but these things take time to percolate upwards. Hopefully as more women achieve higher positions the process can accelerate toward a more balanced representation. Barriers of prejudice take years to knock down , but fall they will. The career path to higher level is hard and long , but once more women reach the top others will find fewer obstacles.

Sorry that add-on was a bit long !

Kris,

I agree with you but I have also observed that at some young age the child begins to dictate the kinds of toys they receive. There will always be exceptions, of course, but in most families parents, relatives and friends usually attempt to provide toys, games, etc. that match the child's observed interests regardless of the perceived gender classifications. I have no clue as to how those interests develop and only some ideas of the elements that may influence them (mostly from personal experience).

Hi Bluestone,

It's true that children express preference at a young age , but how much is that preference shaped by nurture. I would think nuture factors in the home are hugely significant during early years. On top of that peer-presure factors are introduced with School. Even before that there is , as you say , an element of hard-wired ability/skill.It's a very complex thing to analyse. 'Choice' is in some way the expression of desire , but desire is a thing created by external influence.Psychiatrist use the phrase life-script which seems related. Somebody who is expert will probably now pounce and enlighten me !

Perhaps the ubiquitous electronic goods have started to shape things because they are largely not gender specific. However , diferences in mobile phone use are reported in boys and girls. Also boys seem to be more into consol games. My own experience is mainly from observing family. I shall keep my eye out for related information on this subject - it's very interesting.

My mother raised three boys & two girls. She is quick to say that children might not choose their toys, but they choose how to play with them! To my mom's girls, a clothes-pin was almost always a little person; to her boys, it was usually a car or a gun. A baby girl who is given a big shiny metal lid will chew on it and/or bang it on the floor. A baby boy, given that same lid, will fling it across the room. True tales from the trenches!

Another measurement from personal experience: for 20 years, I ran a Space Science club for teens. I had nearly 200 club members over the years, and the ratio of boys to girls was about 5-to-1. Three of the girls went on to get degrees in astronomy - and none of the boys! Several boys got degrees in aerospace engineering, high energy physics, etc, but not pure astronomy. An interesting dichotomy.

If I was going to risk a row , I would suggest the outcome is because astronomy has a romantic element to it. (I'm thinking of books/films like Contact).

At the end of the day , Men and Women have stereotyped interests. I know this is a gross generalization , but you only have to obseve the world around to see that more men are drawn to some things and more women to others. I see no paradox in different areas of study having different levels of gender representation. The real issue is to make sure that this is not so because of prjudicial barriers or 'conditioning' through learning. It is a two way street - fewer women in engineering implies lack of men in other areas.

I don't know how much this outfit knows about the statistics you ask about, but they might be able to put you on the right track to find out: http://www.ces.clemson.edu/wise/

Indeed. Look at the home page Alumni.

Are you an alumni of Clemson?

No Bill. I just looked at the Link you gave. The Alumini picture was (I think) all male - I was just trying to give a bit of perspective. I'd not heard of Clemson before , I liked the page you linked to and assumed it was a women only place until I clicked further. I just wanted to make sure nobody jumped to conclusions like I did !

Ahhhh . . . I'm a little slow sometimes . . . The picture on the home page is a mixture of graduates from as early as 1938 with only 7 classes attending after 1955. The class of 1957 is the host alumni class.

Clemson began as an all-male, military college concentrating on agriculture and mechanical education, but changed to civilian and co-ed in 1955. Early enrollment of females was sparse to say the least, not to mention engineering enrollees.

Thanks for the info Bill. Looks like they're catching up with female representation good. Well done to all those at Clemson (past, present, future) !