effects of magnetics on humans

Hi Yellowcat,

"UV rays have increased skin cancer. Could all these be related to the magnetic earth field ?" There is no relationship between skin cancer and the magnetic earth field. On the other hand, relationship between skin cancer and exposure to UV is proven to be true.

"Some paramagnetic elements are present in humans, they could be de balanced causing mitosis" there are paramagnetic elements present in humans... but they do not cause mitosis. Mitosis is a normal stage in the cell reproductive mechanism. Cancer happens when cells reproduce themselves abnormally.

"we don't know (i hope ...) the reason why this mitosis begins or why it keeps going" Cancer may happen as a consequence of a failure in the immune system, as well as due to exposure to chemical or physical agents. Under these circumstances, intrinsic cell mechanisms may fail, leading to an abnormal number of mitosis. This may lead to an uncontrolled reproduction of a certain group of cells, which may constitute a cancer. Depending on the type of cells this tissue (cancer) may be beningn or malign.

"A clue to this theory (magnetism) is that when removed (surgery) completely, it has an almost 100 % chance of success" only benign forms of cancer have a high chance of success (I wouldn´t dare to say it is a 100%). Total removal of a malign cancer increases the survival rate, but does not cure by itself.

In relation to magnetic fields and cancer: strong fields (1KHz) as seen on industrial heaters may produce changes in the membrane of different cells (ie: Thymus).

There is a phenomenon known as Electroporation, in which small pores appear on the membrane (wall) of the cells. No relationship has been established between electroporation and cancer yet.

Studies of incidence of cancer in electrical workers (130,000 cases) only showed a slight increase of certain forms of cancer among those chronically exposed to high magnetic fields.

Thank you very much for your interest in this matter, with the gathering of point of views and datas, we may link facts together.

May want to check web md etc for: oxygen and lung cancer, calcium and colon cancer, magnesium and diabetes 2 and cancer, sodium and cancer, either too much or to little of these elements (paramagnetic elements) is influencing the growth of cancer cells anarchy growth , i am running out of time now, but i will get more infos.

I would like to find out if balded people (new trend ) have more brain tumors than others ...

Later

By Daniel J. DeNoon

WebMD Medical News

June 2, 2005 -- Living near high-voltage power lines raises children's risk of leukemia by 69%, a British study shows.

That doesn't prove that power lines cause the deadly blood cancer, the study's authors are quick to point out. Despite 30 years of research, scientists still can't come up with a plausible reason why the weak magnetic fields near power lines might cause leukemia.

Gerald Draper, DPhil, director of the childhood cancer research group at Oxford University, led the study. Draper's team compared more than 29,000 children with cancer, including 9,700 children with leukemia, to age-, sex-, and birthplace-matched children without cancer. The children's birth homes were located on the power grids of England and Wales.

Compared with children who lived more than 600 meters from a high-voltage power line, those who lived within 200 meters of the power lines had a 69% greater risk of leukemia. Those living 200 to 600 meters from power lines had a 23% higher risk of leukemia. The findings appear in the June 4 issue of the British Medical Journal.

There is a slight tendency for the birth addresses of children with leukemia to be closer to these lines than those of children matched for comparison, Draper and colleagues write. "We have no satisfactory explanation for our results in terms of causation by magnetic fields, and the findings are not supported by convincing laboratory data or any accepted biological mechanism."

An Unusual Disclaimer

That's an unusual disclaimer for a researcher who has found a statistically significant link. But the data leave Draper and other experts scratching their heads for an explanation.

There are many theories about how power lines might cause leukemia. The most obvious one is that the magnetic fields created by power lines somehow make cancer cells grow in susceptible people. But there's a problem with this theory, notes Heather Dickinson, PhD, principal research associate at the Center for Health Services Research at the University of Newcastle in England.

"What is puzzling is that the magnetic field from power lines is only 1% of the earth's magnetic field, which surrounds us all," Dickinson tells WebMD. "Your fridge or vacuum generates a magnetic field of about the same strength. In England and Wales, only 5% of the exposure to magnetic fields comes from high voltage pylons. So if this is a hazard, people with appliances should be just as concerned."

John E. Moulder, PhD, director of radiation biology at the Medical College of Wisconsin, is an expert on how exposure to various kinds of electromagnetic fields and radiations might cause cancer.

"Power lines cannot be proven absolutely safe," Moulder tells WebMD. "But people have looked very hard for a causal relationship between power lines and cancer and nobody has found one. People aren't going to like this. They really want to be told we are absolutely sure one way or the other, and we are not."

Moulder, like Dickinson, points out that animals exposed to strong magnetic fields -- much stronger than those found near power lines -- don't get cancer.

In June 2002, the U.S. National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences updated its 1999 report on possible risks from electromagnetic fields (EMF).

"Over the past 25 years, research has addressed the question of whether exposure to power-frequency EMF might adversely affect human health. For most health outcomes, there is no evidence that EMF exposures have adverse effects," the NIEHS report concludes.

Power Lines and Infections

Dickinson suggests that the Draper team's findings are real. But she thinks that living near power lines is linked to something else -- something that really does increase a child's leukemia risk.

"We know the rate of leukemia varies by a factor of two or three between isolated rural areas," Dickinson says. "And this is related to an influx of population that can change pattern of the infections to which a child is exposed."

Sudden exposure of once-isolated children to a lot of new childhood diseases, Dickinson suggests, may be linked to leukemia risk. She suggests that this may be a "confounding factor" in the Draper team's findings.

But even if living near power lines does raise a child's risk of leukemia, Dickinson notes that the risk is small.

"A 70% increase in leukemia means that the 1 in 2,000 risk of leukemia becomes a 1 in 1,200 risk," she says. "In the U.K., this means that five extra children might get leukemia. We need to keep this in perspective -- look at the thousands of children hurt in road accidents each year."

SOURCES: Draper, G. British Medical Journal, June 4, 2005; vol 330: pp 1290-1295. Dickinson, H.O. British Medical Journal, June 4, 2005; vol 330: pp 1279-1280. Heather Dickinson, PhD, principal research associate, Center for Health Services Research, University of Newcastle, England. John E. Moulder, PhD, professor and director of radiation biology, department of radiation oncology, Medical College of Wisconsin, Milwaukee.

Hi yellowcat,

Very interesting, during my final year studies for my Degree in Electrical Engineering, I did a research project on High Voltage Transmission Lines Designs with respect to the systems in my country, where I did verification on the standards of Transmission Lines and Towers used in my country.

In the research I did calculations based on the type of transmission lines and the towers employed. Where with respect to magnetic fields, several studies have investigated the health effects from exposure to magnetic fields, which was said to have linked to an increased incidence of cancer and childhood leukemia.

I include here a graph showing the magnetic intensity on a person when positioned in the center, underneath the middle transmission line conductor and walking out to the side, underneath the side transmission line conductors. Here the transmission line design uses three line conductors, long line.

1. Graph Showing Variation of Magnetic Intensity on a Person Standing Under The Middle Conductor.

Figure 3.2: Graph of Magnetic Field Variation.

The above graph depicts the variation of magnetic field intensity with the distance from the conductors. The magnetic field intensity is maximum directly underneath the middle conductor (about 70 milligauss) and reduces rapidly when we move away from the conductors. The acceptable magnetic field strength is about 100milligauss for the transmission line. The calculated magnetic field strength is 2.523 milligauss which is within the acceptable range of the transmission system.

I have not mentioned the specific type or model of Transmission Line Tower and Conductors. However similar investigations can be done on Transmission Towers and lines to determine the magnetic field intensity, as well as Electric Field Intensity.

I used math-cad in doing all the calculations and graphing.

hi Ron,

My friends and i were having an interesting conversation this week about seemingly useless human body elements. Such as why the modern human has hair on his head. We theorized about the adaptation of any specie to its environment, we are not in water so we dont grow palmed hands and feet for example. One of the interesting comment came perhaps demonstrating that if you rub a balloon on your hair, static elct. appears. Could it be a magnetic barrier against earth mag. field, as insignificant it may be (not the earth mag. field) . UV protection of course is the obvious, and the rest of the bodyhair ... ? Food for thought for your next dinner.

YC

Hi YC,

Sure "UV protection of course is the obvious," "and the rest of the bodyhair ... ?" A good question to be "Food for thought for your next dinner too".

Imagine if you had Not a single hair on you, you would have probably lost one of the human body senses. As static energy dose exists and sort of imposes a feeling of numbness when applied to ones skin (depending on the magnetude), as well as having the hairs stand up.

Sure there is static elect. or energy, now how would one want to be mutated by high voltage magnetic and electric fields if transmission lines were not designed to standards and clearance heights?

Any way nice chatting...cheers!

Hi Ron,

Yes, food for thoughts. This is a scientific research and things add up. Physics and chemistry that's what we are. Working now on a NACL chlorination and elctrolysis for pools. That's funny, separate CL from NA and it becomes toxic ... with elctrolysis. Could we suffer from electrolysis under a power line ? Salt is so inocent ...

YC

Yah...O.K YC;

By the wat its 1:47am in my country, Papua New Guinea, located in the South Pacifc. Where are you?

Cheers.

Hi Ron,

In Quebec, Canada. Boy, you'r up late ! Did you know (if my memory is good) that for each hour less than 8 hrs sleep , you loose up to 15% of your immune system ? over 41 hrs work in a week, you loose 50% of your immune system ! This is statistics to be confirmed, picked up on scientific facts on the USA radio, i beleive it was John Tesh's program. I haven't checked it out. Are you sitting between two anodes ... bzzz it reminds me when i was working in Vietnam and Cambodia, we were having late conversations , it was 12 hrs difference. We were planning meetings in the morning here so there it was evening.

Back to work.

YC

In several discussion groups I have participated in, one very interesting "fact" that has been left out of all of the leukemia studies is one of demographic dispersion due to socio-economic status with regards to exposure to power lines. In short, the "scientists" conducting the studies failed to take into account that the people who are forced by economic conditions to live in less desirable environs, i.e. areas near power lines, are people who, for the same reasons, tend to have poor hygiene, poor diets, exposure to other toxins and improper medical care. In short, the study population was not devoid of other proven causative elements, yet the conclusions were jumped upon prior to a full investigation anyway.

To my thinking, the long term studies of electrical workers, who are exposed to far greater EM fields and RF radiation than what anyone would see by living under a HT power line, would be a much better indication of cause and effect. Yet, the studies that have been done on them show no abnormal cancer rates. That to me is the smoking gun.

Thanks for your input JRaef.

It is true that in general, less fortunate people live near power lines. If only that. It applies to animals too ! Healthy issues have been discussed over farming under power lines, especially continuous c. lines. It is possible that poorer farmers own under power lines land also. Plane pilots are not the poorest people. Why would they have more brain tumors ? Can be a number of factors, space radiation , pressure variations, stress, working hours, food, change of habitat, contact with many kind of people in enclosed environment, noise, etc. I am considering earth's magnetic field for it's effect on particles digging thru the stratosphere, at +- sea level, our body adapted itself (majority of population) Tibetans have their body adapted to altitude for instance.

One of the reason i am conducting this sort of survey is that we are about to begin a new era of motorization in day to day transportation, electricity seems to be ultimate "clean" energy if only the batteries were better. It is developping at a surprising rate, other energy forms are or will be of different use . One thing for sure, human bodies need to move around , that will create a whole new intermodal system of transportation. For example the autotrain from WashingtonDC (Lorton) to Daytona Fl (Sanford) , this is a brilliant idea that should be subsidised for its infrastructure to expand north and south, east and west. Corn fields subsidies ? Not so fast , better think hard . Wind power ? Intelligently done please, it's cute one or two, but thousands in a panoramic view ? Think harder. For example, a slow train could have sails and travel along a beach and benefit from the natural wind phenomenon. If one can save 35% of the energy with that, that's a start. Here hydro subsidised (partly) the electronic thermostats and (needs to be confirmed) i was told it saved almost the equivalent of the James Bay dams over a period of ten years. Not only these thermostats are precise but they incite people to be more energy concious. We will all be very soon ... anyway. Are we going to be smart or desparate last minute ? Don't have a crystal ball.

And we thaought we were a modern world, back to the drawing board.

YC

"Plane pilots are not the poorest people. Why would they have more brain tumors ? Can be a number of factors, space radiation, pressure variations...

Dear Guest,

I really do not agree with you: there is no scientific evidence supporting that brain tumors are more frequent in pilots than in the rest of the population. They do have a higher incidence of prostate diseases due to their work (just like truck or bus drivers do) there also might be a slight higher incidence of skin diseases. The latter can be associated to high altitude flights.

On the other hand, there are a lot of persons subject to the situations you mentioned (stress, working hours, food, change of habitat, contact with many kind of people in enclosed environment, noise, etc)" like subway engineers, divers, etc who do not present a higher cancer incidence.

When considering cancer, environmental factors are important...but not THAT important!

"Healthy issues have been discussed over farming under power lines, especially continuous c. lines."

Just because it has been discussed does not make it a fact.

In a truly scientific study, one cannot approach a subject with a bias or predetermined position, because you can ALWAYS find statistics to support a position, usually both sides of the same argument! Fear of EM exposure is just that, a fear, in my humble opinion. When making judgments on statistical anomalies such as airline pilots having an increased brain tumor risk (I am taking your word for that being the case, I have never heard that), to my mind there are a myriad of things they are exposed to that may also account for that risk. EM exposure would be on the bottom of my list, if on there at all. A quick Google search on -airline pilots brain tumor- brings up NO immediate hits relating to any studies on causation, but numerous hits on a link to brain tumors and Aspartame use in drinks served on airliners. Does that prove a causative effect? I don't thing that is true either.

The bottom line is, we do NOT know what causes cancer, other that the fact that it does not appear to be any one thing in particular. But when anyone or a loved one gets it, we immediately search for a clue as to why such a random thing happened to us (or them). In ages past, we attributed these things to God's will for us. With the advent of science and research, we have apparently turned away from that and focus instead on a belief that there is no random act of God involved, but rather an unknown act of madness or greed foisted on us by our fellow man. The next step then is to believe that if we pour enough resources into scientific research and all just stop doing one thing or another, the random illnesses and deaths will cease to happen. I have yet to meet a scientist of engineer quite as powerful as I perceive God to be, so until I do, I'll withhold judgment.

Now engineering; there is something I trust! There is a reason why we no longer live in the age of sail power. We like to go fast!

I drink Aspartame added drinks once in a while, numerous causes and effect have been truly or not exposed to the public.

Moderation i guess is somewhat better. Untill proven, i agree that we attribute events to god or some other form of unattennable entity with our human senses. Batts and birds were probably (probably still are) in some regards the kings of life's understanding. As for the effects of elect. currents and mag. fields, i am puzzled why people feel hitchy under a power line and it goes away when not.

We are having further diners with engineers next week and will still try to establish what causes that. Or does it so happen that a sort of allergy could play part ?

"I drink Aspartame added drinks once in a while, numerous causes and effect have been truly or not exposed to the public."

Now it is Aspartame, 20 or 30 years ago same was said about Saccharine... it was suggested that the sugar industry was behind such rumours! (how many more millions of tons of sugar would be sold should sweeteners not exist?)

Chronic overexposure (as seen in lab mice, when trying to prove these theories) probably may cause the most weirdest diseases... or even some form of cancer!

Dear JRaef,

I agree 98% with you!

My point in bringing up the Aspartame was not to go off in a side track on that, but rather to point out that if people go looking for an answer with a though as to what it will be, they usually find exactly what they were looking for. Aspartame, Saccharine, Sucralose, heck even sugar and water is deadly if you consume enough of it.

By the way, I live almost directly under some 115kV power lines. I do not feel "itchy"; (unless of course I am bitten by a mosquito or forget to rinse the soap off of me in the shower). I do not have brain tumors (that I know of). I raised 2 children there, they do not have leukemia etc. etc. etc. Before I bought my house I investigated this issue in great detail, I found all the studies to be woefully lacking in scientific methodology. Most of the reporting was anecdotal, most of the conclusions were stated as part of the hypothesis!

...to point out that if people go looking for an answer with a though as...

In the Middle ages, people were afraid of wolves, witchcraft, spells, thunders... (and the list can go on ad-infinitum).

Nowadays the target for this fears has changed to a more "Tech" field.

It seems to me as if mankind always NEEDS to be afraid of something!!!!!

CARPE DIAM