Previous in Forum: Equivalent Chinese Standards Versus Indian Standards   Next in Forum: Can Gold Flake (Foil) Be Used Behind Pool Tiles?
Close
Close
Close
5 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 43

Supercritical Fluids - Nitrogen

01/26/2014 11:55 AM

Redfred, and many others Kindly helped me earlier to the point of concluding that IF 1cc of nitrogen at 77K - so nitrogen as a cryogenic fluid - was enclosed in a 1cc container [given a tiny header space] of sufficient strength to resist the rising pressure, then, as the container was warmed to 300K, the nitrogen fluid within it would still be what was put in there (number of N2 mols) - but, of course, as a very energetic supercritical fluid. This is a live problem premised the presumption that supercritical Nitrogen could stoppered in its container, which could be bled - on demand and slowly - into the atmosphere. I am aware of the Wolfram graph. My questions are 5. 1. At what pressure would the Nitrogen be at 300K? 2. If vented to atm slowly to atm, would the pressure remain level as the nitrogen exhauster itself, until Nitrogen left in the container was now just gas at a pressure equal to the pressure at atm - when the flow to atm would stop. 3. If, as experiments show, a supercritical fluid looses its gas/liquid boundary, will it behave in any way other than as a gas on being vented to atm? 4. If liquid CO2 at c815 psi at 300K produces from each 1cc of liquid, c54cc of gas vapour at atm pressure, how much gas would 1cc of supercritical nitrogen produce at 300K? 5. By what formula does one specify wall thickness of such a vessel? Any help gratefully received; also any contacts if anyone can think of someone who may be able to assist. It is a real problem with which I am dealing - Thank you.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#1

Re: Supercritical fluids - Nitrogen

01/26/2014 12:14 PM

Now I see what you mean about mind numbing blocks.

Try some paragraphs.

English Rules | Grammar Rules | Punctuation and Capitalization Rules

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1296
Good Answers: 104
#2

Re: Supercritical fluids - Nitrogen

01/26/2014 5:50 PM

I can't say what pressure it would go to - my chart doesn't go that far. But, if you somehow managed to enclose a volume of liquid nitrogen at atmospheric pressure in an inexpandable vessel (at around 77 degK), by the time it warmed about 25 deg (to around 100 degK), its pressure would be around 5000 psi.

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 43
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Supercritical fluids - Nitrogen

01/27/2014 9:29 AM

Thank you - I had rather been working on c 4,000 psi at 300K . Would you be able to show the formula and working (for me a layman) for the 5,000 psi. Most helpful.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Supercritical fluids - Nitrogen

01/27/2014 9:59 AM

You need to utilize a more sophisticated equation of state for the nitrogen, and actually I am not entirely sure any of the models I learned in physical chemistry would cover the supercritical state. However, I suspect there to be some form of Joule-Thomson cooling as the nitrogen is slowly released, since the valve would have to be a tiny pore - almost the ideal expander for the J-T effect.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1296
Good Answers: 104
#5
In reply to #3

Re: Supercritical fluids - Nitrogen

01/27/2014 1:21 PM

I didn't use a formula. I went to my pressure-enthalpy (P-h) chart for nitrogen, found the point on the saturated liquid curve at 15 psia, followed the constant volume line until it went off the chart at 5000 psia and read the temperature. I didn't quickly find a chart on the 'net, but you might. You could also look up the density of liquid nitrogen and then calculate the pressure that gives you that density at 300 degK, but then you have to find the compressibility factor for an ultra-high pressure. Or look up the pressure directly, if you can find a table that goes that high. Either way, good luck.

How did you come up with 4,000 psi? Why don't you describe your machine more completely, so we can poke more holes in it ?

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 5 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

bigg (2); James Stewart (1); JMCB (1); lyn (1)

Previous in Forum: Equivalent Chinese Standards Versus Indian Standards   Next in Forum: Can Gold Flake (Foil) Be Used Behind Pool Tiles?

Advertisement