Automation Headaches

Well we got out of that business because we couldn't make any money. Every job is different, and the development necessary to customise the design to the customers requirements could never be fully paid for (either as a separate charge or in the markup against the hardware).

We still do lots of custom designing and building, but not in production line automation.

naturaly a man made automation system can never work like a man because so called Automation system which is supposed to save pots and pots of gold ends up as dumb system which works based on logic built in to its system.whoever developed that dumb logic cannot immagine all situations the process has to gothrough for example a switch which is supposed to open or close dosent open or close due to failure of a built in component like a resister or a diode the automation system will die resulting in couple of millions of $per shift like it happened in one of our food processing plant.

crm

You are more than welcome to sit on an un-automated production line and screw the caps onto hundreds of bottles every hour.

Repetitive processes are being conducted everywhere, and that is where the automation system comes into play. Of course you really need redundancy in the system design to prevent complete system failures from occurring.

The problem with a lot of custom automation projects is that they are over engineered.

For over 20 years I designed "Automated Equipment" and also did consulting as a "Engineering Oversight Rectification Specialist".

The key to designing a piece of "automated equipment" is to use as much "off the shelve" components as possible.

Too many automation designers spend a lot of time and money reinventing the wheel. Perhaps it is an ego thing that every component has to be designed specifically for the current project.

Use standard available parts as much as possible and automation can be cost effective.

I agree 100%. Using off the shelf parts is also a huge advantage when something does go wrong as spares are readily available all over the world.

I think that's a great point, off the shelf components are indeed the way to go. It speeds design, R&D, and like stated, easy to get. In one particular thread, it seems as though someone is angry regarding automation or maybe they just had a bad experience with it. Many times the project scope changes or the customer doesn't know what they want and therefore projects don't meet expectations. The age old, I don't know what I want, but I know it's not that.... Whether we like it or not, at least in the US, we have to automate our processes to remain competitive. With union wages getting out of control (auto industry is prime example), all our manufacturing will end up outsourced and we'll all be serving coffee at Starbucks. I understand that comment is going to spark some heated debate and for that I don't apologize. The US has to wake up to the reality of a global market place.

That's incredibly off the topic, so is automation dead or do we as builders need to take a direction of "integrators" for motion and plc companies?

The real problem for automation providers or may they be more aptly called integrators is lack of industry requests for proposals. Since 9/11/2001 US industry has been reluctant to order new assembly lines. I think that it is mostly due to stock values. When stock values were high in the '90's US industry was selling stock to capatalize installation of new assembly lines daily. But, the boom has gone bust and the few automation integrators that are left are hanging on by their fingernails.

I think the problem stems from wanting to go from zero to 1,000 mph NOW!

When I taught Automation Theory & Design, I stressed that you looked for bottlenecks in a production line and when you found them, see how that one process could be automated. Then on to the next problem area.

And I did not mean go out and buy a $400,000. Cincinnati- Millicron Automatic machining center to do what could be done with a couple cylinders, a multiple bit drill head or a few self-feed drills and some air powered clamps.

An example: Drill and tap 28 blind holes of 3 different sizes and all of them at an angle.

Cincinnati-Millicron proposed a $460K Machining center with a $70K per/year maintenance contract.

It took the C/M 45 minutes per part to do the job.

I designed a 2 station machine with 28 self feed air drills at station 1, a shuttle to station 2 where 28 pneumatic tappers did their job, part un-clamped, part removed, fresh blank placed in fixture and the cycle repeated. Total cycle time per part was 6 minutes. Total cost was $88K. No maintenance contract required.

Which design was cost effective? Right, the low tech approach. This is the key to profitable automation. analyze the job that has to be done and then think of the simplest way to do it. But it seems that very few design firms think this way

But too often management wants all or nothing

all these arguments soounds very sweet but who will help the godamened shiftengineer when there is a problem is an un answered issue for example when the griid failed (in spite of providing all the redundency one can think off!)due to what ever the reson how much time it took to restore the system and the pain every body went through the whole world knows.thats the reson i dont trust automation.

crm

What would you suggest? Hiring 15 people, having to pay them outrageous wages for drilling and tapping holes, then have to look for a job becuase the company outsourced and moved?

No sarcasm, what would you suggest we do if automation isn't the answer?

I have a hard time deciphering your question, but I gather you are asking; Who will assist the Shift Engineer after a power outage?

In the systems I designed they would automatically reset or reset after you pushed the "RESET" button. The reset button is the most common as this gives you a chance to clear the machine of any unfinished parts and then start the cycle again.

Also, on every machine delivered I would give a class to the Maintenance Department as to how the machine worked and how to trouble shoot any problems that might arise.

This is common form in the US and most Automation Design companies that I know operate this way.

Of course as Design Engineers we have no control over whom our clients hire to operate or maintain the equipment we design, or the qualifications of that person to operate anything more complicated than a television or can opener.

Your points have some validity, but only if you walk to work, don't have electricity, and boycott the cell phone companies. EVERYTHING breaks, EVERYTHING has issues, as a facility engineer and maintenance manager I have to clean up a lot of messes, but I realize that in order for me to stay an Engineer in the United States, our companies have to remain profitable. We can move everything to Mexico or China and get the cheapest labor possible so we don't have to automate, but I would prefer not to have to do that.

I would highly agree that we as engineers, project managers, and designers really need to embrace a lean way of thinking which was really just explained. Design and integrate only what you need, just because technology will allow it, doesn't mean you have to do it. Just learned that lesson the hard way!! Make things as simple as possible, but not simplier. - A. Einstein.

It sounds like automation is alive, just have to find a niche market. I'm thinking along the lines of small projects, under $100K US where a companies just don't have the horsepower to do it themselves. Any thoughts...

One individual was speaking about teaching, I'm assuming at the collegiate level? Was that enjoyable and would you recommend it? I have thought about heading that direction before too long.

well now it seems you have undersued the basic problem.There is nothing wrong with Automation but the stake holders/owners has to understand that they need to adress the issue of closing the gap in knowledge base ie the operators and maintainence engineers has to be trained in automation engineering and their knowledge base has to be refreshed and costs in terms of time and $.Most of the places where i have worked and seen the operating engineers and maintenence engineers are neglected lot and with out any respect nor incentives.once this issue is addressed wether it is Automation or any other field of engineering you need not move jobs any where out side US infact there is a large scope for generation of employement.

crm

Couldn't agree more, without proper training, education, and involvement - all projects will be doomed to failure. I have been fortunate in the fact that I manage maintenance and PM most projects so they are involved from the start which really aids the learning curve. I do believe the biz world is getting it, the people that "do" need to be better compensated for doing, and the people that manage need to understand that the "doers" are their biggest assets.

you are one of the blessed once!

crm