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Delta Capacitor Connection

04/17/2014 6:47 AM

H, above it is said that, Crs is sum of the Cdelta and the C value obtained from the paralleling of two other Cdelta then it is 1,5 Cdelta..
I think it is nonsense. How is it that RTR energia catalogue can say such an absurd thing. Am I right or not?

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#1

Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/17/2014 7:02 AM

I think it is not so much a nonsense, but a bit weird..

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#2

Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/17/2014 7:03 AM

Why is it perceived as <...nonsense...>?

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#3
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/17/2014 7:07 AM

because 1,5 is a bit weird in terms of 3 phase systems. Also what would you say if I ask you the capacitance value of the same kind for the same terms with delta? How would it be? 1, 5 again? or 0666?

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#4
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/17/2014 7:36 AM

in short , since the current departing the middle point of the series C deltas must be zero so we can accept this scheme constitutes such a formula. But this current is not zero. And it fails automatically to accept this formula..

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#5
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/17/2014 8:24 AM

can anyone tell me , what is the capacitance when looked into rs phase capacitor? How is it calculated ? (consider that a point is connected to another supply )

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#6
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/17/2014 2:58 PM

I still think it is nonsense to claim such a formula, delta connection and 1,5 Cdelta, do not conform to my idea...

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#7
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/17/2014 3:20 PM

You are forgetting your series and parallel circuit analysis of capacitors. Capacitors in parallel add together. Caps in series are a reciprocal sum of reciprocals. See the following for a basic refresher:

Series_and_parallel_circuits

So there are two Cdelta in series, in parallel with a Cdelta. The 2 in series work out to 0.5 Cdelta, added to 1 Cdelta, and Voila!, you have 1.5 Cdelta.

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#8
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/17/2014 3:38 PM

I think this is valid for the situation in which there is no a branch leaving the middle point of this two series capacitors. So you say in short, the third phase line will not effect our calculation logic? I have seen for the first time such a logic... (By the way , I admit that if there was no the third line leaving the middle point of the two capacitors, This calculation would have a meaning since everything would be so simple to accept)

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#9
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/17/2014 3:46 PM

then with this logic, we would have 1/2 C value for Star connection assuming that there is a balanced load.Since we do not care the third line leaving the middle point of two series capacitor then we can say the capacitance value is C/2 ??? ....

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#11
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/17/2014 10:37 PM

Don't try to change the question to make it suit a pre-conceived notion.

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#17
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/18/2014 10:06 AM

No, this is just a mesh network with 3 capacitors and 3 voltage sources. You were asking (and the article was just talking about) what VRS sees as the capacitance value across it. The connection to T doesn't concern it. You can evaluate the network for each voltage source (VRS, VST, VTR) independently, and use superposition if you want the response of the whole system. But for the case of RS, it sees just what was analyzed = 1.5 CΔ. If you had resistors or inductors, you would do it the same way (except for how you add series/parallel elements).

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#10

Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/17/2014 5:48 PM

OP is right, the calculation while correct as shown, makes no sense in the context of a three phase connection, especially since the wye connection illustration does not make the same error. You can view the English version here on page 17. You can only assume that the person writing the copy was not an engineer.

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#12
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/18/2014 3:11 AM

what is intended here with "taped" here?

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#13
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/18/2014 3:13 AM

I think "taped" is a bit weird here too:) Does it try to make us understand that if this 3 phase bank is connected as only RS phase and not the third one is connected to the supply then total c is 1,5 c. Then I comply with this calculation...

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#14
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/18/2014 5:48 AM

also I see no use in calculating such a thing. In a three phase system it is absurd to speak of the capacitance between phases r and s is...

then what?? What is use ? We talk about three phases (where line currents are not equal even in most ideal situations in practicality ).... I think english version is just a crap...

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#15
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/18/2014 8:07 AM

So did you decide if the calculation is crap?

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#16
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/18/2014 8:41 AM

Yes, it is crap and useless, tell me just a single reason for this calculation then I will admit it .

First of all I think there is a difficulty to make us understand what it says...

I claim it is nonsense to talk about the equivalent value of Capacitance of a single phase-phase circuit. This is not a single supply basic circuit . This is a special case of supplying loads..

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#18

Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/18/2014 11:31 AM

The value of 1.5 times one capacitor is correct if the other two phases are disconnected. If connected, they have low resistance which will change the value of the parallel capacitance. So I would say that the catalog "over-simplified" the value. Now get over it and get back to work.

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#19
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/18/2014 2:49 PM

the other two phases?? you try to say "the other phase" is not connected??

I am just saying if there is a fault or not?

I think original spanish is nonsense since there is no such a hint as there are only two phase is connected on the contrary it says all phases are connected.

And I ask a simple question, is there a use in assuming such a situation. I guess if one of the phases is not connected then one of the phases will have the same current as another since it will be a simplified situation to understand. I do not denounce it. But I rejected the nonsense written in the original paper....

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#20
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/18/2014 6:28 PM

...and I think that you should take a look at some of the fractured English and incorrect documentation that comes out of your country (including your own rantings) before you go criticizing anyone else's. This is an international forum; be nice or be gone....

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#21

Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/21/2014 5:33 AM

RamConsult Good Morning ! I am impressed that you know this is an international forum. I actually think to be guru is not a big thing after seeing your this meaningless post.

I think sometimes it is difficult to make some people like you understand what is the gist of the affair you talk about. Anyway, I wish we had a technical debate here rather than hearing your conceited comments.

I think "fractured" here needs proval, or it just turns out to be a crap of you...

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#22
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/21/2014 5:36 AM

by the way, I do not criticize anyone here, I just try to debate , Did I be rude anytime? Nonsense is "nonsense" dude! I cant change it , I waited for some people to change my opinion on this point...

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#23
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/22/2014 9:41 AM

Dear jinxnao,

please notice that the original text refers to a capacitance check, not the operation.

Disconnect the capacitor from the circuit and be sure to discharge it completely (short all 3 terminals before testing).

Connect 2 terminals to a capacitance meter. The capacitance you will measure will be approx. 1.5 times nominal capacitance for each phase, as explained before.

Repeat this for the other terminal combinations. If you read 1.5 C in all 3 measurements, the internal capacitances are OK.

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#24
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Re: Delta Capacitor Connection

04/24/2014 3:24 AM

dear friend, I got what you said. I had got to that point lately, Thanks for your good intention! If I had not understood it , this would make me understand my fault. Just refuse saying that "when you measure phase-phase capacitance" while the bank is depicted as connected to the supply. I think this is not an academical way of thinking. The essence should be explained in a little detail. When you read the spanish text it is not clear what it says. Thanks dude. good and polite answer...

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