T.O.C Theory in Business Management

I don't have any experience with this, but am adding this comment to help clarify the question. Are you referring to Theory of Constraints, Guest?

yes , correct

thank you

Great. Thanks for coming back, Guest. Would you register with CR4 so that we can address each other by name? Joining CR4 also gives you the ability to be notified automatically whenever someone posts a comment to your question. That's how I knew to revisit this thread. Regards - Moose.

Brief ansewr..NO.

However I had a quick read...

It sounds like the usual management consultant claptrap which states the blindingly obvious while charging a few hundred dollars an hour!

Del, I'm shocked!

Goldratt's The Goal in which he first identified constraints in organizational processes as the fundamental problem to be solved is far "from the usual management claptrap" that resides under the layer of clay granules in your litter box and leaves an unmistakable odor...

Here is a success-

I ran a cold drawn steel mill where hot rolled bars were pulled through carbide dies to size them. Folks from the other side of the Atlantic would call it Bright steel, in North America we call it cold drawn.

Any way, the process was shot blast in line with drawbench, shear, straighten.

A normal 10,000# bundle of 1" bars would contain say, 138/140- 33' bars, which we would draw out to 3 12 foot bars and a crop end. a bundle of 4" bars.

A 10000# bundle of 4" bars would contain 7- 36 foot bars. At 50 feet per minute, it took only 6 minutes to draw a bundle of the 4" material. It would take 100 minutes to draw the 1" bundle.

My material handling equipment was slower than--well, lets just say it was REAL slow.

The hot roll bars were located randomly outside in racks, and it took two men to dig out and hitch the bundles and bring to the shot blaster. from furthest point to blaster via drott was about 22 minutes from drop off to drop off. By recognizing this constraint, we arranged for all the larger diameter material to be stored and staged closest to the entry doors of the mill, so that the time was dropped to from 22 minutes to less than 7. (the equipment could safely carry two 10,000 pound bundles)

Eliminating this constraint earned my people a lot of incentive money! Obviously it improved trhoughpout an capacity without spending any capital monies. We did the same thing with emptying scrap boxes throughout the mill.

If you don't think about eliminating constraints in manufacturing processes, I would politely ask, what is it that you do think about in order to improve them?

I am genuinely interested in your answer to this question, because if there is a better way to think about improving processes, I want to know. I have read your posts and your opinion is one I value.

BTW, Toyota lean doesn't count, it incorporates TOC in its fundamental premise.

milo,"not trying to rub your fur the wrong way"

There are plenty of names for what is common sense.

If a process is taking a long time ...simply ask yourself why!

I'm not against the idea or the result! Just against the way these things are 'sold' as something 'new'

An (amusing?) illustration...

In the German army they categorized conscripts as intelligent, stupid,lazy or conscientious.

Intelligent and conscientious are fine..promote them.

Intelligent and lazy were fine..promote them, they will always find the quick smart way to do a job.

Stupid and lazy were fine they will do exactly as told and no more.

Stupid and conscientious are a danger to everyone as they will meddle in things and screw them up,

The point of this?

Any one in the first two groups who has the wit to ask 'can I improve what I am doing '? can find the answer.

The mistake people make..is NOT asking the guy who is actually doing the job.

So new managers come in with new ideas and before they understand a business or process they screw it up.

If you have improved you business by applying this method...good for you!

(If you had to pay good money to a consultant to tell you how to do it, then I would say it was a shame)

You can doubtless see I have a poor opinion of consultants...

An expression we have for consultants in the UK ...

'Give 'em a watch, and they'll tell you the time'.

A prime example I had a 'Telecoms Consultant' working on a job on a battery operated bit of equipment, he'd got a design firm involved who were going to use a PP3 9volt battery to drive the euipment. I pointed out that you don't get 9volts out of a 9volt battery, if you want decent life you will need to run it down to 6v or below. This came as a big shock to them, but eventually the believed me and redesigned with 2 'C' cells and a little step up chip. A couple of days later the consultant proceeded to lecture me about battery characteristics!

He was just a classic Bull S**t merchant...the irony was that one night in the pub...I explained the 'archer's paradox' to him....

He accused me of BS'ing............. at that point I just switched off.

Sorry....rant over

(An honest answer to your honest question)

Thx.

You've named it as 'common sense.'

You've identified 'ask yourself why'

you've identified the motive "can I improve what i'm doing."

The only one of these that comes close to explaining "HOW to improve processes" is 'ask yourself why.' but thats just one step.

T.O.C gives us a mental framework for both understanding the process and gives us a 'how to" for steps to take to improve it. As you point out, Asking why is part of this process. Perhaps TOC is another way of saying "common sense," but I can assure you it was flippin brilliant when my "common sense employee's " recognized that my "TOC idea" was putting more money in their checks. There was nothing common sense told my boys, till we looked for the constraints.

(asking why 5 times in a row should get you to fundamental constants or divinity as absolute cause.)

No, I didn't pay a consultant, though I did buy the book.

Thanks for the comeback. Your consultant experience is typical. i'm thinking we've all been there.

Do you think he really knew what volts were?

milo

Actually there is the makings of a good discussion here about the 'how to'?

(And I do appreciate that the book must have given you a framework to work around, and was obviously money well spent...and , yes, I probably do over use the flipancy (sorry)! )

As engineers in our fields I'm sure many of us can just 'see' or 'feel' the solution, how we actually do this is interesting.

And what is common sense to some is some mystic power to others.

I can remember at a very young age struggling with my first complex 3D problem in my head as I lay in bed (I was maybe 5?)

My older brothers were learning to ride bicycles and I'd been watching and listening.

I'd heard that we 'ride on the left'...

But if we all ride on the fet how come we don't crash into the people coming the other way? (they will be on the left too!). ???

It took a fair bit of thought and, indeed some rolling over, before I worked it out!

(I won't set this as next weeks challenge question!)

Best regards

Del

Dear kitty kitty,

you said"

As engineers in our fields I'm sure many of us can just 'see' or 'feel' the solution, how we actually do this is interesting."

Eureka! This is the real issue!

What we take for granted as just how we 'see' or what we 'feel' is actually a process, maybe not even a conscious one, but a process none the less.

I had a wonderful boss last assignment, and he was always challenging me. I grew more on his watch than I did through adolescence.

Once when we were facing a particularly difficult and painful issue he asked me a question- and I just blurted out an answer. I mean, no thought at all. He stared at me and said, "now how did you do that?" I told him, "intuition." He said "Mr Milo, there is no such thing as intuition. there is a process. it may be an invisible process, it may be a very fast process , but there is no intuition, so lets see how it is your process has given us this..."

He was the real deal, and he was right, our experience, judgement, and all our knowledge can align in an instant just like those schools of fish or flocks of birds do to fly together that we see on the nature shows on tv. But it takes years of experience, and abundant knowledge to get the point where our judgment can be so instantly organized. but its a process. So yes, I continue to ask HOW ???

You said"

And what is common sense to some is some mystic power to others."

I think there is a ray bradbury quote to this effect- "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

You're in good company Mssr. Neko-desu.

Thanks for the engagement. your contribution is purrrfect.

Milo

PS.

It just dawned on me.

I think the fact that the expression 'Bottle Neck' has existed for probably hundreds of years (or as long as bottles!) is ample testament that it shouldn't need a 'theory' or a 'consultant' to explain the phenomenon!

PPS...Oppologies to any of you guys who are good honest engineering consultants, maybe I've just been unluck in the ones I've met...we all have to make a living.

Indeed.

<Sniffs>

Cat?

No

<Sniffs again>

Horse?

No

<Sniffs a third time>

Bull?

Hmmmmmmm......

Yes..

I have successfully impemented the TOC concepts at a few organisations in India. They are very sensible and it works well. In fact, I found that TOC concepts are very holistic in nature which covers complete business cycle. After all a business cycle starts at enquiry/RFQ and concludes when the money is collected.

TOC addresses the complete business cycle. You can ask me specific questions or specific points either through this forum or write me at suhas.gokhale@avautoindia.com

Hi,

We talk about implementation of TOC in our company in Luxembourg.

We are looking for a specific software. Do you have one ?

Is it true the bottle neck comes from marketing in most of business?

If by bottleneck you mean limiting factor for company's cash flow, Then The answer would be "sales". In most businesses the equipment has a "nameplate capacity" Ie how many it can make in a day.

Most people worry about minimizing the cycle time, To reduce the labor cost component per part; smarter people work on reducing the set up time (time the machine isn't producing product for changeover etc.) this lowers fixed costs absorbed per part and allows for smaller lot sizes.

The Smartest people have their foot up the $ales dept's a$* until they have filled every minute of that machines day with orders. That reduces fixed costs to their absolute minimum, and forces operations to find further efficiencies as well as brings benefits of scale.

You show me a manufacturing plant working only one shift, and I'll show you people who don't understand capital,value, finance,operations, or time. And Dummies in management who also don't understand the true role of sales.

Lack of orders are the true malaise in most companies.

That is squarely Sales Responsibility.

milo

milo

We are in process of implementing TOC and have had success with it. Essentially we are trying to achieve better delivery dates as we are constantly late with production shipments.

We identified our bottlenecks and restrict flow to these areas and do not release work until we reach a target fill rate for each production center never to exceed a maximum.

It is working to help improve our performance. I do believe however that balancing out our production to eliminate process bottlenecks would also help us increase output while implementing TOC.

there are some great videos available that offer a good overview. there are also a couple of well noted authors on the subject.

Best of luck