Previous in Forum: WPS Qualification Requirement   Next in Forum: Piglauncher Construction Code
Close
Close
Close
24 comments
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mentally there physicaly here
Posts: 85

Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/21/2014 12:13 PM

Hello,

I have a DIY salt fog chamber that I use to test hardware that is exposed to Oceanfront environment in our products. The parts are of a variety of painted or plated metals, plastics vinyl - no wood. My question is should I add simulation of Sun light? If so, what would you recommend e.g. UV only? Temp in the tank is maintained at 90 F.

Thanks

__________________
If you die in the south - going up or down - you have to go through Atlanta - and there will be a layover.
Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: testing
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42296
Good Answers: 1662
#1

Re: Testing for affect of ocean front

05/21/2014 12:23 PM

Sunlight exposure will affect paint and plastics, by weakening the chemical bonds of the non-metals. But, if you put in Uv lights, why not use them all the time?

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mentally there physicaly here
Posts: 85
#15
In reply to #1

Re: Testing for affect of ocean front

05/22/2014 10:49 AM

When you say "all the time" are you referring to 24-7?

__________________
If you die in the south - going up or down - you have to go through Atlanta - and there will be a layover.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42296
Good Answers: 1662
#16
In reply to #15

Re: Testing for affect of ocean front

05/22/2014 11:00 AM

Well, it is an accelerated test, right? All the time would be my answer, but I can't necessarily point to a document that would specify that.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mentally there physicaly here
Posts: 85
#17
In reply to #16

Re: Testing for affect of ocean front

05/22/2014 11:03 AM

Thanks

__________________
If you die in the south - going up or down - you have to go through Atlanta - and there will be a layover.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7963
Good Answers: 284
#2

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/21/2014 1:59 PM

Although UV wavelengths are likely to produce the most noticeable effect, it might be more useful to attempt to match the wavelength composition and intensity of natural sunlight.

.

Using specific bands of UV might create disproportionately concentrations of certain reactive species in a confined space, such as ozone. Also, other wavelengths will have different absorption in water and will dry out spray in certain places that other wavelengths might not.

__________________
Eternal vigilance is the price of knowledge. - George Santayana
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 31286
Good Answers: 1733
#3

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/21/2014 2:29 PM

Well I think the temperature should be varied as well, for one thing....Wet and dry cycles, sunlight and darkness....Mild abrasion from time to time...all are factors on the beach....Unless this is just a short term test of a week or so, I would add all the elements that exist in reality....but then I would only have to set it out on my balcony...lol

__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7963
Good Answers: 284
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/21/2014 2:46 PM

"...Well I think the temperature should be varied as well..."

.

Maybe the idea is to model August corrosion, in which case, it might not be unreasonable to leave the temperature parked at 90.

.

If Florida were one of the houses in Game of Thrones, the motto would be 'August is Coming'.

__________________
Eternal vigilance is the price of knowledge. - George Santayana
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 31286
Good Answers: 1733
#8
In reply to #4

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/21/2014 5:17 PM
__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7963
Good Answers: 284
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/21/2014 5:32 PM

Well, for some nights it makes it into the 70s, often as low as a nipply 78!

.

You guys do have it much easier on the coast than more inland. Man, Orlando in mid to late August can be oppressive. You are right, it cools off slightly at night, but I'm pretty sure it is just using it as a torture tactic, there are only so many signal that can be sent/received by the brain about how muggy hot it is.

__________________
Eternal vigilance is the price of knowledge. - George Santayana
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 31286
Good Answers: 1733
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/21/2014 7:16 PM

Well last year we had an attack of global warming, but if you look at the historic temps you'll see that the norm is 73, and the air is cool....Getting up in the morning and cruising the beach when it's calm is very nice....Now if you have to work out in the heat, then it is indeed brutal at times, as I did for many years, but being retired I avoid that anymore, and a good sweat has it's own rewards....I did spend several years in New England growing up, and I can truly say I hate the cold weather....I would rather sweat than shiver any day...

__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Placerville, CA (38° 45N, 120° 47'W)
Posts: 6007
Good Answers: 243
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/22/2014 1:08 AM

I'm glad there are people like you! I definitely do not consider 73° as cool.

I prefer 73° as a daily max, not a min, and have considerable difficulty sleeping if it is above 70° at bedtime.

__________________
Teaching is a great experience, but there is no better teacher than experience.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7963
Good Answers: 284
#12
In reply to #10

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/22/2014 1:35 AM

I do enjoy not shivering. Some parts of August are too warm for my tastes, but it isn't a serious complaint. I do occasionally identify with Louis CK's delusions about being from another planet.

__________________
Eternal vigilance is the price of knowledge. - George Santayana
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mentally there physicaly here
Posts: 85
#14
In reply to #3

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/22/2014 10:45 AM

Presently The dry cycle is 12 hours a day. The other 12 hours there is fog every .5 hr for 5 minutes. The fog remains in the air for about he .5 hour cycle. Temp is always 90 degrees. Aspirator includes air - there is plenty of oxygen. After about one hour after fog cycles the air is a little muggy but clear.

Thanks all for the responses.

If I want all spectrums of sun light should I be concerned about lamp the lens re. UV filtering?

__________________
If you die in the south - going up or down - you have to go through Atlanta - and there will be a layover.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA, Florida
Posts: 1560
Good Answers: 125
#18
In reply to #14

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/22/2014 12:48 PM

I don't see the advantage of including UV radiation if your testing is "compressed".

There is no way to compress the UV caused degradation that I know of.

__________________
An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42296
Good Answers: 1662
#19
In reply to #18

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/22/2014 2:35 PM

Sure there is. Intensity and heat. Radiation breaks the chemical bonds of the plastics. More radiation, more breakdown. Heat helps.

This does not affect the base metals, however. It could affect plating and other surface finishes.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42296
Good Answers: 1662
#5

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/21/2014 2:50 PM
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7045
Good Answers: 206
#6

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/21/2014 2:58 PM

is it salty fog?

Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mentally there physicaly here
Posts: 85
#13
In reply to #6

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/22/2014 10:33 AM

Yes. I have been using a mixture as stated in ASTM b117. Recently I started using actual Atlantic salt water from Coco beach. I boil it before I put it in the aspirator chamber. I have not checked the pH on the real sea water.

__________________
If you die in the south - going up or down - you have to go through Atlanta - and there will be a layover.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7963
Good Answers: 284
#20
In reply to #13

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/23/2014 12:35 AM

Why do you boil it? Driving off dissolved gasses as well as other changes due to high temps has to effect chemistry....right?

__________________
Eternal vigilance is the price of knowledge. - George Santayana
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mentally there physicaly here
Posts: 85
#21
In reply to #20

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/27/2014 7:40 AM

How boiled - In an open SS pot fro 2-3 minutes - rolling boil.

__________________
If you die in the south - going up or down - you have to go through Atlanta - and there will be a layover.
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mentally there physicaly here
Posts: 85
#22
In reply to #20

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

06/02/2014 11:25 AM

I boiled the water to kill off organics and sterilize the water.

__________________
If you die in the south - going up or down - you have to go through Atlanta - and there will be a layover.
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#7

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

05/21/2014 4:58 PM

What spec are you testing to?

The conditions should be spelled out in that spec.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mentally there physicaly here
Posts: 85
#23
In reply to #7

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

07/15/2014 1:39 PM

This is a DIY chamber that has been detecting early life failures on door hardware that has ferrous metals in their internal workings. Including plating and paint defects in screws and cover plates. This client base does not require ASTM b-117 test certs but does demand a warranty.

__________________
If you die in the south - going up or down - you have to go through Atlanta - and there will be a layover.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7963
Good Answers: 284
#24
In reply to #23

Re: Testing for Affect of Ocean Front

07/16/2014 11:59 PM

Depending on what type of doors these are, the typical exposure of these parts might call for a slightly more complex testing regime.

.

If, for example, the doors open to spaces frequently occupied by humans, or the doors have glass panes, or the door forms part of a major barrier between human occupied space and the outside, even if it doesn't open into the people spaces, or the door open to often utilized storage spaces..... there will typically be exposure to several other substances that could have important effects.

.

Consider hardware in doors with glass panes opening into residential space....

acetic acid or ammonia is likely to leak down into parts when Glassplus or Windex is used to clean the glass panes. Soft drinks may be spilled on/in door hardware. Fine sand will often be creating small penetration of passivated surfaces. Door jambs and possibly hardware may be regularly doused in insecticide, alcoholic beverages, floor polish, floor cleaner, stomach bile, Pepsi, hand lotion, room deodorizer, various lubricant, ink for paper, coffee, fruit juice, extended metaphors, hyperbole, and bad puns.

.

I believe incorporating brief periods of rinsing with the pieces in one of three slurries alternated by schedule. The slurries might be something like:

.

1. Pepsi and diatoms

.

2. Aqueous ammonia, sightly stronger that used in glass cleaner, and generic weed and feed lawn fertilizer particles

.

3. Acetic acid, slightly stronger than used as glass cleaner, and fine beach sand.

.

.

Higher temperatures tend to accelerate failures in many situations but holding temperatures constant or exposure constant might lead to overconfidence about minimum longevity. Abrasive particles degrading passivated surfaces in the presence of various likely chemicals might reveal otherwise missed important weaknesses.

.

Heat tends to accelerate chemical reactions, but the thermal stress from intermittent sun exposure on one side of hardware and intermittent cold AC blasts on the other, in combination with abrasive grit, at the very least are setting up diamond-anvil-wannabe-like conditions putting passivated surfaces through a torture test... you should be too.

.

Run your temperatures at least as high as the parts could normally see in service...120 F maybe? ...and as this is an accelerated test, drop it down to 35 F once or more times a week.

.

Consider putting heat lamps on tracks to unevenly heat the parts.

.

Cage couple seagulls above and feed them strictly funnel cake and coffee, so their guano chemistry has a Coney-Island-esque level of respectability.

.

.

Some of that was conveyed in a silly way, but there is at least little truth in every joke, sometimes more.

.

However thorough/complicated this gets, on its own it won't elucidate the optimum or maximum warranty term. I can tell reveal problems with runs and suggest which coatings are more durable. The warranty thing is more of a pricing/marketing/branding/whore-alchemy type thing than it is engineering. For any failure rate, there is a price point which allows immediately mailing out a replacement whenever a warranty claim is made, with the added bonus of no return shipping nor receipt nor inspection of the failed hardware....but like I said, that's more of a sales-witchery thing to ponder.

__________________
Eternal vigilance is the price of knowledge. - George Santayana
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 24 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Hero (1); dkwarner (1); Fredski (1); lyn (4); SolarEagle (3); tom@windoor (7); truth is not a compromise (6); WJMFIRE (1)

Previous in Forum: WPS Qualification Requirement   Next in Forum: Piglauncher Construction Code

Advertisement