Trouble Finding Work in Australia

"Why can't I get long term well paid employment? "

Perhaps your are overqualified.

I was offered a consulting type job a $37.50/Hr. Took it. Reported to work and started promptly. Finished that job in two hour. Received $75.00 and was dismissed.

Good pay! Short job.

There are a lot of us in the same boat, I don't have a degree (shhh, don't tell the others...) Fortunately I worked for a guy early in my career who sent me off to get and HNC which helped get my foot in the door... decent experience helps. One problem is the plethora of young guys with degrees who will be cheaper than you.

Another problem is getting past HR departments who know zip.

In your job I can see it's dificult to take examples of your work to an interview, otherwise this is a good way to set you out from the crowd.

Good luck

Del

I did work as a consultant electrical engineer for a couple of years but the pay was so low (due to no degree) that I had to work weekends as an electrician to make ends meet. I had to get out after the stress made me sick.

Thus far I've never had problems with having no engineering degree. Maybe it's the country or just plain luck.

I took radio/tv repair instead of Electrical or Electronics Engineering because I didn't have enough money for an engineering course. I worked as a radio/tv technician for only one year. The next year, I was designing and installing sound systems. The next two years, I learned how to design and install fire alarms and security systems. Then I got into instrumentation. I've worked for three companies as an instrument technician for the past 22 years. One for 8 years, one for one year and, the last, for 13 years (still working for the last one).

In all instances, I got in because:

• they were willing to take a chance on me
• I proved myself and esablished a network of people who would vouch for me and my skills
• the companies I got into didn't bother to look for a diploma but hired on what they saw in me

I know your situation might be different. Maybe companies over there consider the diploma a sacred thing, I don't know.

However, one of my co-workers used the internet to find a job. His prospective employer called him and conducted an interview over the phone (something like an hour or so). He got hired on a trial basis where he would spend three months in Australia and they would both check each other out. At the end of those three months, they decided they liked him and offered him a full-time job. He's still there after three years.

Sometimes, it just takes luck.

I was in the same position about 15 years ago. I started my own business by figuring out what I was best at, and what I could do that was in the service industry ("recession - proof", sort of) and sub-contracted the work requiring a professional engineer "stamp".

My reputation was so good that, once, after divorce and the usual loss of capital, I was hired by a manufacturer which required 2 degrees. They assumed I had them because of my work. Even the degreed engineers regarded me as an equal.

In some cases, it's not what you know or who you know, it's what they know about you.

Get "famous" and they'll be coming to look for you.

Guest,

Sometimes when you walk into a room, even with your back facing everybody, for some unknown reason you can feel someone across the room that you have never met - and that energy is trying to draw you closer. The feeling is so compelling that you can't do anything else but search out that energy to be satisfied.

And just like that feeling , it is possible that when you seek employment in the field you are in, undetected by anyone outwardly, your psyche prevents anyone from hiring you because the unseen energy says you really don't want to take or shoudn't have that job. Only your sub-conscious knows the answer.

So what does this lead to - it must be something else. With all of your educational expertise, it is clear that you are intelligent and have the ability to excell in your chosen field, but it must be something else.

If you want to try something else, email me. Let's talk. We're looking for a rep in Australia. If not us, look for something that makes you feel great, happy, and satisfied, aside from the field of electrical engineering.

Steve

srive1@yahoo.com

That is strange, as there is definitely a shortage of good people in most areas Australia. HR departments could be a cause, they usually have no idea of what is actually required for the job and select applicants on the basis of boxes ticked.

A friend of my wife was knocked back when she applied for a nursing position even though she'd been doing the job, had the highest marks and had a glowing recommendation from the head of department. The reason given - she hadn't specifically stated that she "cared for patients" in her resume.

Try researching the jobs you're after a bit more so you can use the appropriate lingo. Get into any job (no matter how low) and then apply for the better positions (HR people love to see that you're already employed). Get someone else to check out your image (good clothes, neat resume, recent shower, nothing hanging out). Watch out for loaded questions - Organising that 6 month strike in support of workers rights, may have been a personal triumph, but may not be of interest to future employers. Note that they all ask questions like "Have you ever made a mistake". The answer is Yes, lots of them. So I've learnt to always...." Good luck Jeff

ffej - I believe that you have given very helpful advice. HR people often believe and talk as if they were liberals even though their actions belie that claim. Nevertheless, a job applicant needs to get past those people if the applicant wants the job. Perhaps a job seeker should submit their technical-oriented resume to a liberal friend or professional with a request to suggest adding or rewriting with a slightly liberal slant. It wouldn't be lying or misrepresentation since nearly everybody on Earth cares about everyone else to some degree. Liberal HR people want to see and hear evidence to support their bias. My experience as a member of selection committees is that too many qualified people have been rejected in favor of less qualified individuals who were skilled at giving the HR people what they wanted.

There is no skill shortage in Australia- they have imported low wage workers to do their crap jobs- the real jobs of old have long gone, just as manufacturing has gone to China, chiefly because of Globalisation- the bottom line is that employers are there to make money, & they won,t employ locals at previous rates if they can(& they can!) get foriegners to work for nothing (comparitevely speaking). These days to get a good, long lasting job, you have to :- get a soft govt job( you must have mates or relations already there):- if applying for a private enterprise position, you must appeal as a "team player"- really, why would you bother if you aren,t?. Another way to look at it is while you are making others rich, you are wasting your allotted time alive on this planet Earth. Think laterally- if you are able, invent & market things that are needed NOW.!.

Emigrate to Alberta Canada. Every company has help wanted jobs posted and with several megaprojects in the oilsands you can't get tradesmen for love or money. I know this isn't Australia but it is still inthe commonwealth.

Very important is how you put your resume together. I've found that it makes a lot of difference. Adjust your resume to the company you are applying to. Get help from a recruiting company. Its not cheap but its worth it. I found the software Resume Writer very usefull. Don't show your age in your resume and never tell them your age. You may want to change in your resume 25+ yrs of experience instead of 30 yrs in case the employer wants to guess your age. You have to know the company you want to work for. Get a lot of information of the company you are going to have an interview with e.g. name of the CEO, total sales/profit, number of employees, the type of business they are in etc. The interviewer(s) should get the impression that you know the company well. Be humble but convincing.

Good luck.

Hi,

I see that someone mentioned Canada. You are also welcome to Norway. There is big demand for Instrumentation, automation and electrical experts like yourself. I can give provide you with some agents details if you are interested. Do modify your resume as it was mentioned (not for Norway - Here they do not care if you do not know the name of the CEO, what is their profit margin or what kind of business they are in).

I'll be glad to help you if you wish to come to the North Pole........

Hello, thanks for your offer. I am unwilling to relocate my family due to the disruption this will cause to my son who has an intellectual disability. He is settled and doesn't cope with change very well. I will consider all offers if it is possible to work on a fly in fly out basis which will allow for adequate contact with my family.

Thanks again.

Regards

Shane

Cant understand why you cannot find work, there are 4 or 5 jobs currently advertised in my area which would suit you.

Also re the Norwegian connection surly there are a lot of POMs who would like to work there they are a lot closer than Australia. I have worked over there for a while its a great country.

I was going to pass up commenting but because of my own past experience I have to throw my two cents in.

After my successful automation/custom electronic business hit an economic wall in the 90's I found myself trying to get back into the corporate club after a 15 year absence. First, the comment about reputation is accurate it can get you in doors that would otherwise be closed. But the most significant opportunity lies in getting in! Even if its a poor paying position in another field. Once in, you can from the inside sell you skills or even develop the need for you expertise. What "they" are willing to pay is proportional to what they think they need. That perception of value will get you what you want.

I like the idea of stating 25+ years of experience, rather than 30. Remove the most obvious references to dates that will tempt them to do the math.

Absolutely make sure you have a top of the line resume. Don't make ANY spelling or grammer errors, of course (spell check is not enough). Do get help on your resume (a.k.a. CV) if you are not sure. Get someone else to check for errors or awkward phrases. You often can't see your own misteaks

And here is the best kept secret that I've ever found, regarding job hunting. It's called Jobsbyfax:

http://www.jobsbyfax.com/alt2/

I don't know if they have a branch in Australia, but it's well worth looking into. This service does all that it promises, and all the glowing testimonials from satisfied customers as true as rain. This service circumvents the problem of HR Departments who don't know squat. Somehow, the people behind this jobsbyfax service have researched and found the personal fax numbers and names of company presidents, CEO's, Managers, etc. for all the companies within any given industry, within any given radius from your home. It faxes your resume directly to these people, or to the front desk, addressed directly to those in charge, and goes around the HR Departments. Based on what you pay, it sends literally hundreds or thousands of your resumes out all at once, targeted exactly as broad or as narrow as you wish. I've paid $50 - $80 USD, and had 500-1000 of my resumes and cover letters faxed to the people that need to see them.

I have no affiliation with this service, besides being a very satisfied customer several times over (I'm a contract worker).

Best thing since sliced bread, in my opinion. Hopefully they have this same service down under ... or something similar. I recommend it to everyone.

Good luck!!

By the way ... the last time I used Jobsbyfax, within 10 days I had 13 interviews and 4 job offers as a result. The offers ranged from $52K to $71K. Oddly, I didn't accept the highest paid salary, but was able to use this fact comfortably as leverage for the other simultaneous offers, and couldn't be happier.

you should go into teaching college with all that stuff,it's good in Canada

You didn't say much about your approach to getting "the job"--others have had to surmise, and give very good suggestions in response. Here are some more surmises that could be inferred from your inquiry.

You mentioned getting "employment," and that it be "well paid." I would guess that these are attitudinal aspects, real or only perceived, that could be hindering your efforts. Let's take the latter case, first.

Well paid is a rather nebulous construct, both for your attitude and to anyone to whom you might (eventually) want to convey your expectations. Plus, that manner of thinking can convey uncertainty or insecurity--or unfounded avarice or ego-centrism--to prospective employers. Hirers will always be better impressed by a (experienced) person who knows the going pay range--that's in specific numbers--the value of a particular position or level of effort and range of responsibilities to be undertaken. HR departments are also aware that persons with extensive experience can become quickly dissatisfied if a position does not continue to meet their self-perceived value; so it's important to avoid letting yourself be tagged with any of these preconceptions. Said another way, many companies will be willing to hire a more naive recruit because his/her expectations over time can be more easily managed. So, you should make effort to find out what the specific pay range is for an advertised or uncovered opening, and then avoid--or deftly and humbly deflect--any mention of pay until the hirer shows definite interest. (Better to compete for those $s against only a few, or no one, than against everyone who applied or was interviewed.) At that point, express a willingness, not to be highly paid (whatever that means!), but to earn the pay which is normal and reasonable for the ("well-performed"--yes, these can be your words) duties that will be expected--when you are (quickly--use this word, too) up to speed in the new job. The attitude needing to be conveyed is that you are desirous of being paid justly & fairly--in respect of your prospective coworkers--at a level commensurate with the responsibilities you are to be given--and that you hope to be able to "$grow" (don't mention the dollar sign) along with the company in the new job. In this way, you also change the focus away from your expectations and towards your reliability, stability, and value as an employee.

Now the second case, getting employment. Thinking in these terms--as opposed to "showing what in particular you can do" to meet the particular need of a particular company" is something like fishing without knowing what you are trying to catch; or, better still, like being a fish in an ocean of fishes, all going for a lure which is hoped to catch only one particular kind of fish. Or at least that's the way that fish looking for "employment" can be perceived by those who are trolling in that ocean. Better...is to endeavor to know as precisely as possible what the duties of a particular job will be; and tailor all your efforts to demonstrating (1) your foreknowledge of those duties and (2) that you will be able to "hit the ground running," with minimal handholding. (Companies are willing to hold hands with a novitiate--because he/she costs less, does simpler tasks quicker, and because they see a long-term payoff, including that juniors will move up and push (but not too hard) their superiors up along with them. But not so with senior-experience-level employment prospects--those who, for their pay, must produce "now"; and who also can be seen as having less value to the boss's personal ambitions--vis-a-vis juniors--in the long term.) So, rather than seeking employment (which you should already have...as will be explained in a moment), you should seek to demonstrate yourself as a match for the particular job which is offered--that and nothing more. How to do this? Read on.

The starting point for arousing interest by an employer starts with the resume--even if you have to modify the resume to fit it to the specific job (as discussed above) for each prospect you pursue. Judging by your self description, one guesses that your resume might be both overlong, and overloaded--it's impressive to any reader (the more so those who cannot fathom its depths, such as HR types), but there's nothing that grabs a reader who is thinking about a specific task or tasks to be done (or job description that has been assigned to her). Once you find out what the job will entail--as much as possible by whatever means are available (what you can't find out, try to imagine)--you now have the blueprint for cutting out, or de-emphasizing, anything in your resume that is not an obvious fit (or is overaged); a fit with immediate, and near-term duties to be performed. (In other words, get the job first, then impress later.) Think of it like this--and this will reveal why many if not most resumes fail--that your resume will be what you hope to become a script: a script for the progress of an interview. It first attracts attention to the match between your background and training and the job description. But, not only that, you hope that the interviewer will ask you questions that are directly suggested by the resume (which you will be well prepared to answer); and what would the interviewer ask, other than about things in your resume that catch his/her interest as pertains to what he/she needs to have done? So, your approach should be to start thinking about that interview, as if being called were already a fait accompli, at the moment a particular opening--a job requirement list--comes to your attention; and start working on interview preparation starting with tailoring of the resume.

Finally, seeking "employment" conveys yet another "dis-qualifying" (I use the ambivalent buzzword, qualify, for expediency only) impression: that you are not currently employed--an impression that is baneful in direct proportion as the years of experience you have. If you are indeed "idle while seeking" you are well advised to correct this: take any employment you can get (emphasize any) while you seek to re-enter your chosen field. Why? Because being unemployed is generally viewed as being unemployable. Employers will generally prefer to steal an experienced employee from a competitor than help out a deserving, but needy, person. There are rational reasons--not necessarily fair--which for the sake of brevity, and unless asked, I won't go into now. (Some are self evident however.) But just try it on faith and you might be surprised at how well your search begins to turn brighter.

Signed: Knows Their Tricks...

Oh yes, if you are just scattershooting (sending of posting generic resumes) do so with the expectation they will go unheeded; this realistic attitude will help you keep you spirits up. Another trick that could work is to raise your objective. Go for the job which you could move into, such as a management-level position (say, project leader). You never know....

or, are you sounding for an offer from somewhere other than Australia?

Bravo! Well said, sir!

Hello, I have read your response with some amusement as it appears firstly that you have little or no experience in the construction industry where it is quite common for someone to be out of contract at the time of approaching other employers. This is caused partly by the hesitance of employers to share their timetable for layoffs to prevent losing their people before they are finished with them and partly because people would like to be kept on for additional works which usually flow on after completion of a project, again the employer will rarely share the details of who will stay and who will go. The other reason I am amused is that you seem to enjoy demonstrating your obviously high educational level by the use of terms and statements which you feel, due to your high intellect, require explanation for such an obviously uneducated person such as myself. I try to use plain simple terms which will effectively communicate my view at a level which I can understand. The fact that I use open statements without specifying dollar amounts(in a forum) does not mean that I do not know my worth and the going rate for my qualifications. Thanks for your input. I have found the content of your statements to be useful while not knew to me. I also understand how the system works in Australia but would like to see it change to give more direct contact between actual employers and prospective employees.

Regards

Shane

A friend from the States passed tis to me as I don't get time to see all that is on CR4 these days. I hope I can help you. Contact me direct via CR4. Older Electrical tradesmen are sought after up here in the Bowen Basin. When I was working underground the 60 year olds working for me were well worth their salt.

Hello, sorry for the delay in replying to your message. I have had some short term shutdown work but no internet access. I am interested in all offers, however I am not in a position to relocate. I have a son with an intellectual disability who is in high school and is settled, he doesn't handle change well. Ideally I am looking for fly in fly out positions which will make use of my qualifications and experience. I haven't had the opportunity as yet to fully utilise the things I've learnt during my studies. Thanks for your input. I have considered work overseas (I live in Australia) but I doubt that I could get a suitable roster to maintain enough family contact. I wont give up I'll just keep pushing and something will come up.

Thanks

Regards

Shane

Shane,

I haven't had time to get back to this till now. If you want to use CR4 to contact me, we have positions going as do other organisations involved in mining. Otherwise give Workpac a call, they try finding people for us (they regularly phone me with offers to work in WA etc.).

One thing you may find odd, when I was getting out of my Electrical Contracting Business in 1980 the Contractor's Licence was a liability in interviews (you could see the eyes glaze over). When I left a major mining company in 1992 the "Veggie foreman" tag and my advancing years (38 at the time) were real impediments to snagging something decent for a while. Now when I'm asked to try and recruit sparkies, I'm asked to try and get some full grown ones. The truth is Competency based training has totally failed our younger tradesmen so older properly trained tradesmen are in demand. Knowing it and capitalising on it is important.

G'day Emjay4119, thanks for the encouragement. I find it interesting that you comment that you are asked to look for full grown sparkies as you put it. In my experience this is not the case. I have found that I am overlooked for someone fresh with the current tickets but no experience. I have experience in most aspects of the electrical industry but have found that this doesn't seem to count for much. I have worked in every field from telecommunications, through heavy industry and large commercial, commissioning, high voltage terminations, HV testing and commissioning to consulting engineering and engineering and production management. Still with this broad range of skills and experience I am overlooked. Recently I have only had, what I consider to be bottom of the barrel work on shutdowns at low rates in poor conditions. It seems that all of my hard work throughout my life is wasted. As you can tell I am losing my belief in my value. I have tried to obtain long term work as an electrician on projects but, even though the companies claim they cannot get the skilled workers they need, I still get overlooked. I don't understand. I have applied for FIFO work in Karratha where they are screaming for workers but with no success to date. Thanks again for your comments.

Regards

Shane