Previous in Forum: Motor Magnetising Current?   Next in Forum: Foam Skid
Close
Close
Close
2 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1

Generator Surging

07/08/2014 11:24 PM

Okay I'm new to online help forums so I apologize if I make any silly etiquette mistakes ahead of time. I'm not looking for a direct answer but more so guidance on the steps I take to solve the issue/my thought process to troubleshoot this.

The engine is a cummins PCC2100 DSHAA 150kw and it had between 30 - 45 kW .88 pf with one phase switching between .91 leading and lagging quite quickly with a quick fluctuating load.

Today during a power outage we had a generator that was surging/hunting under load. I only noticed this because one of our UPS was sending a phase synchronization alarm to my email. When I opened the ISX client I saw that the generator was outputting 59.85hz. So I went to investigate.

What I found is the engine RPM was fluctuating between 1780 and 1810 and the freq was outputting 59.5 - 60.6hz according to the display. I inspected for fuel leaks or possible loose connections where air can get in and everything visually checked out. Without any tools or much time to sort this out I went into the setup and adjusted the AVR/Governor by turning the gain down to 50% from 100% and left the regulator alone bc the voltage was displayed as stable.

The result was a smaller window of fluctuation 1792 - 1801 RPM and 59.8-60.1 Hz. I am not happy about how unstable the RPM is but it was good enough to supply the load without worry and it stopped the phase sync issue for the UPS.

Once power was restored I ran the generator at idle and it was a stable 1800 RPM so I set the governor gain back to default of 100% and observed the stable 1800 RPM as well.

The load is fairly small so I can't see it posing an issue for our governor/AVR but I will quickly rule this out by attaching a resistive load bank and applying 30/40 kW to see how the generator responds and if it responds well at a multitude of loads I will apply the load bank on top of the building load to observe the pattern again.

What I suspect is a fuel restriction issue or air getting into the high pressure lines.

I don't have INSITE, quickserve or any of the speciality tools that are listed in the repair manual, but I will be getting an account and software in a week or so.

Once I have INSITE and can control the idle speed and hopefully the ability to pressurize the rail, cut cylnders etc. I plan to do the following.

Connect a fuel line to the quick connect outlet of the fuel filter and monitor for bubbles in a 5 gallon jug at low idle and then high idle. Look for any other quick connects in the system on the high side and perform the same test.

if all checks out measure the pressure going into the pump and out of the pump.

if that checks out test the fuel injectors with the software by monitoring the fuel they reject into a measuring cup within 20-45 seconds what ever the manual says.

What do you guys think am I missing anything or jumping into anything too quickly?

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: cummins diesel Generator
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#1

Re: Generator Surging

07/08/2014 11:47 PM

This seems to be a rational approach....I would establish a relationship with the local representative of the distributor for any info they might contribute...being able to get a top tech on the phone when you need one, is best planned before the time comes....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#2

Re: Generator Surging

07/09/2014 12:28 AM

You didn't say what the nature of your loads is but I suspect facing a classic issue of the loads changing at electronic/electrical speeds but the governor is responding at mechanical speeds that are a few orders of magnitude slower.

Let's say you have an electronic load that has periodic step changes. The load jumps 20%, the governor tries to play catch up and admits more fuel but by the time the fuel gets to the cylinders, is burned and provides additional power the load has dropped 20%. Now the governor sees it's providing to much fuel for the new load, backs off the fuel, and then the load kicks in again. Your generator will never operate at a fixed speed as it chases the load which is changing faster than the governor can respond.

You sort of proved this theory by lowering the gain, that desensitized the governor to the load fluctuations so it didn't try so hard to chase the load, hence the speed appeared more stable. If you dumb down the governor even more it will be less sensitive and more stable; the problem will be when there's a real step change in the load and you'll start complaining that it "took to long to respond" to the large load.

Another part of the puzzle is the operating load relative to its rating. Diesels dislike part load operation and start to carbon foul, that fouling affects its operation until it is loaded enough to burn off the fouling.

Please let us know what the factory rep had to say.

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Register to Reply 2 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!

Previous in Forum: Motor Magnetising Current?   Next in Forum: Foam Skid

Advertisement