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J Type Thermocouple

07/17/2014 12:47 AM

j type thermocouple fix at field depends on temparature mv wil be generate my question is how its display on dcs system in °c ..is any formula?hpw is convert mv to °c?

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#1

Re: j type thermocouple

07/17/2014 1:10 AM

You could go through all of the extra work to design and fabricate your own circuitry to display a thermocouple reading. I would just purchase an already designed module with a cold junction compensator and be done with it. I like the Red Lion displays but you should do your own due diligence.

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#2

Re: j type thermocouple

07/17/2014 3:04 AM

The relationship between the mV of a j-type thermocouple and the temperature is widely published, as indicated in #1 above.

What is needed in the way of equipment is a proprietary transmitter, as suggested in #2 above, to convert mV into a signal that the DCS can take as an input. Without knowing the inputs available at the DCS it is difficult to advise further from here, though the thermocouple supplier would certainly be able to suggest something; try using the telephone to talk to someone there.

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#3

Re: J Type Thermocouple

07/17/2014 4:08 PM

>on dcs system

A DCS will definitely have a 4-20mA analog input for a temperature transmitter and it might have an analog input for direct connection of a thermocouple; it depends on make and model.

A temperature transmitter handles cold junction compensation and linear conversion to temperature units. So on the DCS side, one does not calculate temperature values from mV values, one scales the 4-20mA input from the transmitter to the same range as the temperature transmitter is configured for, for instance, 4-20mA = 0 - 250 DegC.

If the DCS has a direct analog input for thermocouple, then the DCS analog input card provides cold junction compensation and linearization over some configured range.

One does not need to program the conversion of mV from a J type thermocouple on a DCS, the average installed cost of which is $5 million USD. It is a configuration task.

A DCS is a high-end platform.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: J Type Thermocouple

07/18/2014 2:07 PM

I agree. GA Iris .

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#5

Re: J Type Thermocouple

07/20/2014 12:33 AM

In any event, you have to know the temperature of the 1/2 junctions where the TC connects to the electronics. On good transmitters, these should be isothermal. This temp is measured by an alternate means.

Then you have to reverse lookup that temperature and get the mV value. Cold junction compensation is usually valid for a range around room temperature. The other way, is to place a series connected thermocouple in an ice bath,

Then you measure the output of the temperature your trying to measure.

I think you subtract the cold junction mV value from the measured value in mV and then use a look up table or polynomial to get the non-linear temperature from the mV value.

As suggested - buy one,

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: J Type Thermocouple

07/20/2014 4:49 PM

>Cold junction compensation is usually valid for a range around room temperature.

Good cold junction needs to be valid for whatever the cold junction temperature is, whether that temperature is near to or far from room temperature.

Temperature transmitters are frequently located in hot ambient areas, sometimes too hot to touch. The cold junction needs to work at elevated or sub-freezing temperatures as well. In commercial instruments, the cold junctions works over the range of the whatever ambient exposure temperature the instrument is rated for.

>I think you subtract the cold junction mV value from the measured value in mV

The measured Cold junction value is added to thermocouple reading.

Take the example of a thermocouple on a desk (isothermal - both ends at the same temperature).

Both ends of a thermocouple lying on a work bench or desk at room temperature (say 25 Deg C) will have the same temperature, therefore a measurement at the cold end with a voltmeter will read 0.0mV.

But the Type J thermocouple table says that at 25 Deg C, the thermocouple generates an EMF of 1.277mV. Why does the voltmeter read 0.0mV?

The voltmeter reads 0.0mV because there is no temperature gradient across the thermocouple. It's the gradient, the difference in temperatures, that creates an EMF, not just being at an isothermal temperature. No gradient, no EMF.

Yet if you were to connect that thermocouple to an instrument, you would expect the instrument to read the room temp of 25 Deg C, right? That happens because of the cold junction measurement.

The cold junction measurement measures the temperature of the connection (terminals, terminal block) on the instrument.

In the example, the connection temperature is also at 25 Deg C, room temperature.

The cold junction measurement (the temperature of the connection terminals/block) of 25 Deg C is then added to the thermocouple measurement, 0 Deg C (no temperature gradient, EMF = zero), for a final reading of 25 Deg C.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: J Type Thermocouple

07/21/2014 10:28 PM

As usual, well explained. GA

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