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Associate

Join Date: Sep 2008
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REF Relay (Restricted Earth Fault) Location

09/12/2014 2:14 PM

While working in consultancy, I have observed two locations for REF 64 relay. The schematic is as follows: There is a transformer with a neutral CT (NCT). The sensing from this is fed to 64R relay.

a) Some consultants suggest placing this relay in the upstream HT breaker and trip the HT breaker in case of any earth fault.

b) while others place this relay in the downstream (LT) panel and would like the LT breaker to trip.

Which of the above is correct and widely accepted practise

Regards,

Prashanth

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Guru

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#1

Re: REF relay (restricted earth fault) location

09/12/2014 3:10 PM

What is/are the Transformer connection and winding configuration?

WYE (HT) to DELTA (LT) => REF relay in/on HT side because of the neutral physical location.

DELTA (HT) to WYE (LT) => REF relay in/on LT side

WYE to WYE => REF relay in/on LT side

The ideaology is to protect the transformer which is normally critical to plant/system operation and it is very expensive to replace.

By tripping the LT breaker the magnitude of the fault current reflected through the transformer windings is minimized.

Tripping the HT breaker will allow the fault current to reach maximimum value.

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#13
In reply to #1

Re: REF relay (restricted earth fault) location

09/18/2014 11:57 AM

you can install REF in STAR or DELTA both side..... in Delta side residual current of three phase CT used to ref relay

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Commentator

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#2

Re: REF relay (restricted earth fault) location

09/12/2014 3:16 PM

Your scheme is a bit vague, but it will depend on the zone you are intending to protect.

If you were trying to protect the LV windings and connections between a HV/LV transformer and an LV switchboard, then that board is the logical location (near the CT's) and it will normally then trip the upstream HV breaker if a fault is detected. In this case tripping the LV breaker alone would not remove the supply to the fault. All this assuming power is feeding from HV to LV but is widely used in UK.

This is still just one typical useage.

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Guru

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#3

Re: REF relay (restricted earth fault) location

09/12/2014 8:14 PM

The widely accepted practice is to protect the most.expensive part of the circuit, while not causing any fires.

Are there any codes in your part of the world.

What is the name of your. Consultancy?

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Guru

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#4

Re: REF relay (restricted earth fault) location

09/12/2014 11:29 PM

Most of the transformers are delta/star configuration . For these , it would preferable to mount the REF relay on the LT panel as it will be convenient to connect the CTs. For tripping , both HV side and LV side breakers to be tripped.

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#12
In reply to #4

Re: REF relay (restricted earth fault) location

09/15/2014 10:10 AM

I agree with Ram's reply

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Power-User

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#5

Re: REF relay (restricted earth fault) location

09/13/2014 12:05 AM

It is convenient to fix Relay in LV panel as the CT wiring will be easy . Because, Neutral CT only fixed in the transformer. Other phase CTs are fixed at LV panel incomer Tripping can be done LT and HT together or LV/HT. If you have easy access to HT side then either tripping in HT or LT doesnt make any change.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: REF relay (restricted earth fault) location

09/13/2014 12:13 AM

Both should be tripped

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: REF relay (restricted earth fault) location

09/13/2014 1:10 AM

Why should be?....if incomer breaker at LT panel is tripped, then Transformer is on No load. Some client/consultants ask for only LT side tripping .

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: REF relay (restricted earth fault) location

09/13/2014 3:24 AM

REF relay operates only for Internal faults of Transformer. Any fault occurring between Transformer secondary winding and CTs located in the LT Panel.

Therefore, the source feeding the fault has to be cut.

Sources are HT supply and Motor loads connected to the LT side.

Therefore, both HT and LT Circuit breakers are to be tripped.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: REF relay (restricted earth fault) location

09/13/2014 8:06 PM

"Why should be?....if incomer breaker at LT panel is tripped, then Transformer is on No load. Some client/consultants ask for only LT side tripping ."

This shows a total lack of understanding of the protection a REF relay provides. Removing the LV load does not remove an internal transformer fault. Both the MV and LV breakers should open at the same time.

If I'm wrong I've been connecting the relays incorrectly for the past 40 years.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: REF relay (restricted earth fault) location

09/14/2014 12:14 PM

Yes...Tonys and Ram is correct. It is my mistake. I took it as High temperature trip. Yes, REF trip both HT and LT.

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#11

Re: REF Relay (Restricted Earth Fault) Location

09/14/2014 1:39 PM

Thanks everyone for the replies. The transformer is Delta-Wye. HT on delta side and LT on wye side. Name of my firm I will not be able to reveal since I am participating in this forum in my personal capacity and not as a company representative. In the schematic there is an inter-trip between LT and HT breakers, as suggested by MR. Ram

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