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Anonymous Poster #1

Can Website Code Suddenly Malfunction After More Than 1 Year

11/23/2014 12:05 PM

I had a website made up to some well defined specifications and they were agreed on by the developer and for more than one year the website functioned as requested.

Now, about 15 months after the delivery date the site is starting to show errors and the developer is not responding to my questions as to why it is happening.

My question to you guys is this: Can a site's code suddenly malfunction without internal tampering by the developer?

I am not able or qualified to write code or even have access to it so I have no way of knowing what has happened but I cannot see how a perfectly functioning site can suddenly malfunction after more than one year unless the code was being tampered with, and apart from being hacked, which I have no reason to suspect as this this is not a site where money or any kind of valuable transactions take place and no persons information is stored so there are no likely reasons to suspect hacking, so in that case can I legitimately suspect that the developer has been tampering with the code?

Or is it actually feasible that code can suddenly malfunction after more than one year of operating successfully as it was originally specified?

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#1

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/23/2014 12:36 PM

Is it operating with the same version of the browser which was originally used?

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/23/2014 12:47 PM

Yes, same browser, Safari, and same computer too.

The computer and browser are both fully updated.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/23/2014 12:50 PM

"The computer and browser are both fully updated" - so has Safari been updated since the original installation?

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/23/2014 1:05 PM

I apologize, I should have stated before, but the malfunction is not on the viewers side, it is on the back end.

The site functions perfectly well to the viewer, ie, to my or any other browser.

The malfunction arises when I try to upload stuff in the back end, I now get an error message that says "Cannot access the database"

I've emailed the developer about this and about another lesser irritant and he doesn't respond.

His not responding has made me concerned as to why he would not respond and that has made me ask if code can be corrupted after more than one year, without an intervention of some sort.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/23/2014 1:13 PM

Hi, Anon Poster #1!

- e

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/23/2014 1:19 PM

Anything and everything can malfunction over a period of time. Have you tried removing the updates from both your computer and browser, back to the last time you noticed it was operating properly? And has any updates been done to the web site that you know of?

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/23/2014 1:31 PM

I am still on the exact same updates as I was at the time before the problem arose and I haven't done any updates to either my browser or to OSX since the time when the uploading was working perfectly.

It just came out of the blue one day when no other thing had changed, ie, no updates to my end at all.

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#10
In reply to #4

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/23/2014 2:32 PM

This sounds to me like some array size of the code is now being exceeded. As you've indicated your uploading additional data.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/23/2014 2:41 PM

You mean I could have run up against a limit on my allowable space allotment or something? That does sound like a possible cause.

Wouldn't the developer be able to fix that and charge me for it?

This is what's so confusing about the whole thing, I can't know what he is thinking or doing without a response.

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/23/2014 4:48 PM

Can you delete (make a copy first) some of your back side input? Then add new content to see if it's allowed.

If this works, then a simple memory declaration change should be doable in the code.

But without seeing the code, I'm just guessing. If this is the problem, it should be a very cheap fix to up the memory allocation size for the variables that are affected used to reserve space for your input.

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#14
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Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/23/2014 4:59 PM

Thanks for the suggestion.

I will try it and see what happens.

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#16
In reply to #11

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/24/2014 12:38 AM

It's not all that unusual for a software writer to include a time bomb in the code. They often do this to extort more cash from you in the future. The fact that the developer is not responding could simply be that he is no longer around.

These time bombs are generally triggered by the computer clock reaching a certain predetermined date, and often the easiest method of ascertaining whether or not it is a time bomb is to alter the computer clock to a date sometime before the problems began to see if that overcomes them.

Sometimes a bomb is a one shot code whereupon once the date has been triggered a piece of operating code is deleted and cannot be restored by a backdate, other times it does work. If it does, it may just be a matter of keeping the clock backdated, but if that is not an option then you may be able to have someone check the code and remove the bomb, that is if they can crack the security.

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#17
In reply to #11

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/24/2014 4:01 AM

It could be something as simple as a database that is now full. There is free databases around that are able to compete with the big commercial versions but not to the full extend. There might just be a limit of allowable space in the database or on the server or a bit of both.

You could try to talk to your web page host to find out. You could also try to delete old data and see if feeding new data works.

What actually is the application meant to do? Are you even collecting data?

The other option as already stated is that an update:

1. On your side (Browser, system, safety settings)

2. Web page host (availability of ports, Server update)

3. HTML rendering tools, scripts, dynamic content software update

4. or a mixture of the above

prevents the code to run properly.

Can you confirm it is unavailable for all users?

Pretty sure the developer could fix it. A good programmer also leaves documentation behind which could mean somebody else can fix it. Never seen this happening, but one never knows. If there is scripts involved they would be "plain" language and can be reviewed by another programmer.

Want to post a link so we can try?

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#18
In reply to #4

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/24/2014 4:57 AM

Try the telephone, then.

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#23
In reply to #3

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/24/2014 8:09 PM

I saw that PM!

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/25/2014 3:12 AM

Gulp!

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#31
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Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/25/2014 12:16 PM

I was bound to happen

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#26
In reply to #23

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/25/2014 5:27 AM

'You or somebody else has done this operation too many times' type thang

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/25/2014 10:40 AM

You now have four OTs. You and that other guy who's not 'jdg.'

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#33
In reply to #27

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/25/2014 1:22 PM
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#28
In reply to #23

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/25/2014 11:16 AM

Me too. Them Brits dare rip one in public, then grin about it as if you-know-what.

Kris darling, shame on you. At least hide that smile.

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/25/2014 11:53 AM

Loveable bastards all - except for Del. Where are my OTs, dammit!!

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/25/2014 12:13 PM

WDF I just reduced your minus 5 to minus 4 - for the second time.

Can anybody tell me what's going on ?

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/25/2014 12:46 PM

Someone who's not content with 5 OTs, evidently. Of course, it takes a bit of effort to click on that little 'plus sign' that expands a marked-OT-by-the-poster post and then mark it further OT because they didn't like what it said. Especially so when they had the option of not reading it. That is its purpose, after all, to mark posts as not being relevant to the topic, a suggestion to readers that they might wish to skip over said post, but these days its now a means to get at people, as a form of punishment (not that it really is. It sucks being totally impotent and that, probably more than anything, is what's pissing them off)

Lots of folks like that on this forum of late. Not that it matters. The rating system is already broken beyond salvation and so what does one more OT mean these days? Nothing. Nothing at all. All it means is that some frustrated individual needs someone to punch but can't from behind a keyboard and so the next best thing they can do is mark a marked-OT post Further OT.

Ignore them. That, too, is easily done from behind a keyboard.

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#34
In reply to #32

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/25/2014 3:58 PM

The rating system, Scrap that. Any rating system is not sincere by definition of it's being prone to manipulative digress.

The thing is, I don't understand how a discussion about Off-Topic comments, can be off-topic as such. It's a paradox.

And while on the subject of being off-topic, here's me with my dutch girlfriend, Leonie Van Der Laans, way back when, when I was still intact

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#36
In reply to #34

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/25/2014 4:24 PM

I tried to start an off-topic thread here not long ago, in jest, but the admins removed it. Something about posting on-topic off-topic posts being against site rules, but I could be wrong.

Actually I did once, earlier, on this very site - a thread stating from the outset it was off-topic - long ago, before the Borg assimilated CR4 into the Hivemind. That thread was a lot of fun as were many others back then; something we don't often see here anymore. I wonder if it went the way the Bath-Breaking Thread as well.

Rating systems can work better than the one here; those that publicly display the identities of the raters. Many sites now simply have a 'Like' sort of button but without a corresponding 'Dislike' button. That way they don't risk losing anyone's bucket of warm, fuzzy feelings and litigating.

Here, no one's held accountable for their ratings and so it has become a free-for-all, more or less, with all the Pariahs being downvoted as a matter of routine, usually by the Good Ol' Boys. It's pathetic. There's really no other word for it: P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C.

Certainly an incentive to leave the site, yes? If it weren't for all the really sharp people here, I'd be gone yesterday.

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#37
In reply to #36

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/25/2014 4:50 PM

If it was up to me, I would abolish it five years ago.

All it did was to open a can of worms.

"...The only way to get under control a warm of wasps out of their hive a, is to build a giant hive around the sworm.." - Randolph H. Zemorgy

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#38
In reply to #37

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/25/2014 4:56 PM

Not everyone was in favour of it. Of those who weren't, many are now gone, sadly. They were good people. Fun, too.

Nobody left but us Professionals.

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/25/2014 5:07 PM

Your USB avatar looks like it's praying.

Now, just between us two : How off-topic can USB-be in this thread ?

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/25/2014 5:13 PM

U Said it, Bro!

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#43
In reply to #39

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/26/2014 10:28 AM

USB is actually on-topic. It's one of the most fashionable ways to transfer malware.

Unapproved USB devices, even power chargers, have been banned from US Dept of Defense computers since 2009. 2009!

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#44
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Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/26/2014 10:44 AM

And rightly so, as it was just about when* they** installed that 'stuxnet' in Iran, right ?

* Some say it was back in 2007

**Allegedly NSA or Mossad or one of those.

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#45
In reply to #43

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/26/2014 10:41 PM

Besides, most PC motherboards will allow USB to serve as a boot-source, able to load a "fenced" TSR (in a protected area on RAM) prior to loading the operating-system, leave a segment-anchor on the hard-drive, and once the system loading is complete, thread or weave itself into a hard-drive, for permanent-loading with each boot in the future, thus marking itself as a part of the operating system.

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#5

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/23/2014 1:12 PM

Do you have the original code backed up somewhere? If you do, compare them. I would not mention your suspicion that the site developer changed the code surreptitiously until I had concrete evidence in-hand. They could sue for libel if it were made public but untrue.

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/23/2014 1:43 PM

I don't know where or how I could obtain the code except from the developer who is not responding, so I don't have any backups and consequently I can't compare them.

The reason I'm asking here is because I don't want to accuse the developer of anything unless and until I know that code can't be corrupted by itself without some sort of intervention.

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#12
In reply to #9

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/23/2014 3:30 PM

Good call.

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#15

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/23/2014 9:01 PM

Web is not what it used to be. Javascript, CHS, PHP, Pearl and other web based languages are enough sofisticated to do just about anything including time related behavior change, exploit backdoors and other nasty staff if set to do that. But I think this is NOT your case. Something broke in YOUR system while "updating" it, it's not the code itseld, since you haven't touched it. Hypertext is mostly "calls" to those intepreter functions inside the "updated" libraries. Now even reverting back to old configuration may not fix things, since also settings may not be 100% compatible. Another possibility is something is messed on your ISP side. Not that uncommon, they "update", too. S.M.

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#19

Re: Can website code suddenly malfunction after more than 1 year

11/24/2014 8:11 AM

The was an incident here in the UK many many years ago in the days of the first digital burglar alarms where the unit failed a month or so outside the warranty period.

The (simple) LCD screen displayed an error code that pointed to a message in the handbook that gave a phone number for help.

The help was free in the sense there was no call-out charge to diagnose faults, but if outside the warranty period, a free estimate would be given for repairs that would have to be paid for.

As you might guess, the unit could not be made to work on site because the part for the suspected (very rare) fault was not carried as a routine spare. The unit would have to be taken away (for their experts to look at) leaving you without burglar protection for a fortnight or more (they were very busy fitting new alarms due to the increase in burlaries in the area) but you could pay extra to jump the queue for an express repair.

Alternatively you could have a reconditioned unit at cost, or for a small extra fee, a brand new unit (that the engineer happened to have with him) fitted without delay and as a special offer (for that day only) they would give a big allowance for the faulty unit, and for an extra fee, an extended warranty, that would be included free if you paid extra for the engineer to fit the new unit at that visit.

A brand new alarm, an extended warranty, a discount, a part exchange allowance - and fitted without delay - what a bargain!!!

However, word got round the trade that there were a high number of failures for this particular make of alarm panel, which oddly only seemed to apply to those installed by one particular contractor, where over time, the failure seemed to happen at exactly the same period of time after the expiry of the warranty.

To cut a long story short, it turned out that the installer had found a way to make the internal clock, after a predetermined time, to flag up an error message.

It actually became a criminal issue and the installer was eventually caught, not so much by customers complaining as such, but more by the trade crying foul giving the genuine product and manufacturer a bad name. The installer was charged but I do not recall what the penalty was.

Part of the defence was that customer had been given good value for money. They had not been defrauded because the old unit (albeit with an error display) still worked perfectly well, and brand new replacement units, if purchased were supplied and installed at bargain rates - which were far less than the cost of their competitors, or other service contracts.

In fact everything said above seems to be fairly standard practice nowadays - with any machine - except you pay through the nose for repairs - the only difference then was the alarm unit being deliberately programmed to 'fail' just outside the warranty period.

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#20

Re: Can Website Code Suddenly Malfunction After More Than 1 Year

11/24/2014 10:41 AM

Have you defragmented the hard drive yet? It may be that the code has become fragmented.

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#21

Re: Can Website Code Suddenly Malfunction After More Than 1 Year

11/24/2014 2:25 PM

Updates can break things. A few weeks ago I read that the database commands that I use over and over are "depreciated" and will go away in the next version of the data base. I need to go through my code and rewrite every one of these calls. I have no way of knowing if this is what happened to you but it is possible for "good updates" to do bad things to code.

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#22

Re: Can Website Code Suddenly Malfunction After More Than 1 Year

11/24/2014 6:09 PM

There are so many reasons your system could be failing. A time bomb from your developer is not high on the list in terms of likelihood. A bug is a given - there's no such thing as perfect software, but that's not to say you're seeing symptoms of bugs. Have you arranged for maintenance on your system(s)?

If the system has been upgraded as you say, you're not running the same stuff. Period. The custom code is dependent upon the rest of the system to some degree.

Since it's connected to the internet, you could easily have been hacked. I'm tempted to say you probably have been, simply because you're on-line. It doesn't matter that there's no currency being transacted: information has value. If your site attracts users who have access to anything valuable, then your site can be used to exploit them. Or, someone can just be using your system to crack codes, mine BitCoin, funnel child porn, hide terrorist planning, etc.

Really, you need a system administrator to look at it. Make sure you get someone qualified (experienced) for your OS. The first thing they should do is check the database and system logs. That will tell you (or your SA) what to consider next.

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#35
In reply to #22

Re: Can Website Code Suddenly Malfunction After More Than 1 Year

11/25/2014 4:16 PM

"...there's no such thing as perfect software, but that's not to say you're seeing symptoms of bugs..."

More likely, there's no such thing as "complete debugging".

The number of possible machine-states created by an application is astounding, compared to to the few points-to-be-achieved designed by the programmer, who can hardly ever foresee all the logical consequences possible, multiplying with each new command, function and delimiter, as they fill the lines of a program - Any program.

Any rare machine-state, out of the reach of the app user, is a potential bug.

Statistically, it's a miracle that software somehow manages to work, sometimes flawlessly..

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#46
In reply to #22

Re: Can Website Code Suddenly Malfunction After More Than 1 Year

12/01/2014 10:55 AM

I've listened to everything here and I'm taking your advice by hiring a Systems Administrator to look at it and hopefully keep it trouble free.

I'm negotiating with a prospective hire right now and he has suggested a good idea is to create a mirror site where all the problem solving and development can be done before introducing modifications to the real site which sounds like a reasonable idea to me.

One thing he has asked me for is permission to put his company name in page templates and code comments.

I presume these are adverts for his company and he has told me that these will not be visible to the public, only to those who look at the source code but as I do not know anything about code I am wondering whether or not it is a good idea for me to allow this as I would be relying on his word that it can not affect the site's performance in any way.

Can you offer me any insight or advice on this request of his, more exactly, as to whether or not it is safe to allow this?

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#47
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Re: Can Website Code Suddenly Malfunction After More Than 1 Year

12/01/2014 11:13 AM

It's always a good idea to have a contract stipulating rights to the code. If s/he puts copyrights or proprietary statements into the comments, that could create legal hassles later. Claims of authorship/ownership in comments are customary and technologically harmless unless they are done wrong (quite unlikely and easily identified: the code doesn't run or a page looks obviously malformed). Your web site code probably already contains such from your previous developer.

Plan to require the services of a sysad periodically. You should be getting some of this value from your hosting service, unless you run a self-hosted site. (In today's world, self-hosting is risky due to the threats, required maintenance and potential liability. Look into a cloud subscription, whose fees should provide basic protections and coverage.)

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#48
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Re: Can Website Code Suddenly Malfunction After More Than 1 Year

12/01/2014 12:34 PM

Thank you for your advice, much appreciated.

The arrangement I am negotiating is for administration as and when problems occur, or did you mean ask for say a monthly check-up or some other appropriate time interval once the problems are rectified?

By self-hosted, do you mean hosted by the developer?

My site is hosted by the original developer so is that a cause for concern? The current contract ends December 31st.

It's my understanding from my prospective Sysad that any host will have access to the code so nowhere is guaranteed safe and he suggested staying with the existing host on the grounds that the developer / host is probably not interfering and the cause of the problem is most likely elsewhere.

One of my basic requirements from the outset was very fast loading of my front page and I thought that a cloud service would hinder that so I've not considered it until you mentioned it.

Am I wrong to assume that a cloud service will slow the front page loading time?

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#49
In reply to #48

Re: Can Website Code Suddenly Malfunction After More Than 1 Year

12/01/2014 12:56 PM

Remember the caution about "free advice." :) The last time I tried to run a web site was in 2004, but it was one I wrote from scratch. I'm sure there is more up-to-date experience on this forum, if not then "out there."

Self-hosting to me means someone running the server out of their bedroom or back office, which is dangerous and time consuming.

Someone needs to patch the system and respond to immediate security threats that are identified. But, someone patching the system could easily check your log files periodically and respond to error messages immediately (by calling you). Perhaps the current host has a next level of service you can sign up for.

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#50
In reply to #49

Re: Can Website Code Suddenly Malfunction After More Than 1 Year

12/01/2014 12:59 PM

Thank you very much, much appreciated.

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#25

Re: Can Website Code Suddenly Malfunction After More Than 1 Year

11/25/2014 4:19 AM

"Or is it actually feasible that code can suddenly malfunction after more than one year of operating successfully as it was originally specified?"

Yes. Very. The conditions under which the programme is operating are constantly changing. Its environment is changing through software and hardware updates. The data running through the code is changing.The total amount of data in the database is changing. The date and even time is changing. Access to the system is changing through browser and OS updates. Bugs found months or years after the system was first launched are common.

Try every way to contact the developer. E-mail, phone, text, write.... drop by. Remember you signed this code off and unless you can prove it was dodgy the developer can quite reasonably ask for a fee for writing updates. If you can't find the developer then you'll need someone else to fix it. First step: getting a copy of the code. If you can't find the developer find the company who is hosting your code and ask them for a copy. Expect bureaucracy and lots of layers of proof. HOPE the code has been written in a comprehensible form with lots of notes and explanations.

The big lessons here are: always keep a copy of the original; and, every programme has a bug. It's just a matter of time.

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#41

Re: Can Website Code Suddenly Malfunction After More Than 1 Year

11/25/2014 6:08 PM

I was going to proffer an apologia regarding off-topic raspberries and USB usw, but I've just noticed you've posted the thread anonymously - so you deserve everything you get .

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Can Website Code Suddenly Malfunction After More Than 1 Year

11/25/2014 6:11 PM

Meet our delegate, JohnDG.

We do apologise AP#1. A little. Lemme work on it.

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#51

Re: Can Website Code Suddenly Malfunction After More Than 1 Year

12/25/2014 8:46 PM

"...about 15 months after the delivery date the site is starting to show errors and the developer is not responding to my questions as to why it is happening..."

Many freelance or hired site builders leave several "Back-Doors" in their source code, in case the site will generate wealth for it's owners, while the hard working programmer was left out in the cold.

Some, with hidden agenda or with failed expectation of payment, leave a "Time-Bomb" in their source code.

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