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Guru

Join Date: Nov 2012
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"Practical Solar?"

12/11/2014 9:18 AM

For the last year I have been putting the pieces together for as economical a system as I can afford...a 1kw wind charger, a PV panel solar tracker using the NREL solar positioning algorithm with 10 turn 'pots' on each axis for positional information which is being linked to 9'x12' heliostat focused on a copper plate heat exchanger to heat vegetable oil in insulated IGP 275 gallon containers. A heat pump is used to transfer heat to house/shop. I had planned on implementing a low RPM, large displacement Stirling of my design as I've not been able to find something in 1KW or better. A recent search has turned up 2 possibilities other than my own which may be of interest to other people that frequent this site.

a recent 'kickstart' funding: seftonmotors in Michigan...a 1KW capable @ $1395, needs about 400F gradient.

'Sunpulse' from a German company, develops >1KW with a 150F gradient, and is demo'd at 'Tamera solar test field' which is a site of interest in Portugal.

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Guru

Join Date: Feb 2011
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#1

Re: "Practical Solar?"

12/11/2014 9:30 AM

nice one

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Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
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#2

Re: "Practical Solar?"

12/11/2014 8:03 PM

What kind of final price are we looking at here for a 'practical solar power' system such as yours and what sort of specs go with it namely KWH output and or BTU output?

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Guru

Join Date: Nov 2012
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#8
In reply to #2

Re: "Practical Solar?"

12/13/2014 8:01 AM

My interest here is not in selling a product but DIY application of ideas, the 2 sites I mention show low cost application of beta Sterling engines, one of which (Sunpulse)operates at a low temperature differential. The other is 'shade tree' backyard construction, (one of the videos shows a cylinder head being cast in a wash tub) but it is a functional engine. If you're not running an electric clothes dryer, or an oven, heater, or similar device, around a kilowatt of power should be sufficient for most households.

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Power-User

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#3

Re: "Practical Solar?"

12/12/2014 9:44 AM

It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into this, however I have a safety concern and it deals with the idea of a vegetable oil used for heat transfer agent. If you are able to heat the vegetable oil to 400 degree, it will then be extremely flammable if not explosive if any air reaches it. The other thing is that vegetable oil does not have that good heat transfer properties. Have you considered some synthetic, non-flammable oils which can stand that temperature? Silicone fluid (Not oil) was used for insulating and heat transfer in transformers at higher but not that high temperatures to replace pyronal (PCB's) and eventually this becomes contaminated to a point it will not function electrically and must be replaced. I don't know what the waste stream for the fluid removed is but it might be a cheap heat transfer fluid. One caution is that it does not have any lubricating properties and pumps would need to be lubricated in other ways. AT one time I had a lot of this fluid, but when making a move, I was offered a deal I couldn't refuse and sold it. My intended design did not require the 400 degree level. On a side note an installation where I used to live, used concentrators to heat some kind of oil that was good for 750 degrees. I do not know if they achieved that temperature, but electricity is produced there 24 hours per day and the output of the plant is greater per land acre than a nuclear or coal plant. It is a very successful plant but of course located in an are that has very little overcast days. We tried to bid on the testing of the electrical system but were not successful.

I too have a personal project that will involve concentrating solar energy to power a heat engine for electrical output but mine will not be of Stirling design and will be designed to provide 2.4 KW for 24 hours a day. I will be using a water-glycol solution for heat transfer under pressure but will not need to operate at that high a temperature. I am limiting mine to 250F. The source of this heat will come from focused and tracking 10 foot recycled satellite antennas. As for area heating, I will use conventional non focused evacuated tube design and my area does not need AC in the summer. I am going to also have a small amount of conventional photovoltaic.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: "Practical Solar?"

12/12/2014 3:19 PM

I use vegetable oil because it's obtained for free and I can run my ford 7.3 turbo and my tractor on it (except in the winter) and I'm not required to provide containment. The 400 degrees differential was a requirement of Sefton motors current production model. I currently limit the oil temperature to 300, which allows me to make steam if I want to. The large displacement Sterling I'm working on should work at a 200 degree differential. My heliostat has 12" mirrors and dumps into a heatsink approximately 80 feet away and according to my calculations dumps (high noon sun) about 10 kw into the heatsink. If I need higher input I can build and program a second or third to dump into the same. I plan on heating enough oil to provide for several days of no solar input. It was interesting to find how my thoughts were matching the Tamera solar test field.

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Participant

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: "Practical Solar?"

12/13/2014 1:41 AM

You are poisoning us using vegetable as a fuel.

by products of combustion could include triglycerides in it which is bad for the body at higher level.

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Guru

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: "Practical Solar?"

12/13/2014 7:44 AM

This comment displays your stupidity and ignorance and inability to comprehend.

1. The vegetable oil is being used for an energy storage medium, not being consumed.

2. The energy being stored is solar energy from the sun, the very thing that supports EVERY living thing on this planet.

You might have a point if you were a vegetable, if you said "killing" instead of "poisoning", actually vegetables display more intelligence.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: "Practical Solar?"

12/13/2014 8:27 AM

He might have read that you're running your car using vegetable oil, anyway why not replacing it with some good heat conducting fluid or solution available?

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Guru

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: "Practical Solar?"

12/13/2014 1:26 PM

I'll check...I'll agree, there are better fluids to use, I am using vegetable oil that I recycle, previously used fryer oil that I get for free, it is non toxic and if I spill it, it causes no harm. And as to running a diesel on vegetable oil, unless I'm mistaken, it's less or no more polluting than any other oil. I believe he did not read what I posted, or read and did not comprehend, or like many people, is just plain stupid with a head full of misinformation. :)

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#4

Re: "Practical Solar?"

12/12/2014 12:39 PM

A round of applause for effort, Boss.

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