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Acoustic Solutions

01/22/2015 1:40 AM

Acoustics

I am looking for answers on various aspects of acoustics,specifically on stopping of sound in rooms.

For now I am looking for answers on "Does glass panels stop sound or conducts sound."

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#1

Re: ACOUSTIC SOLUTIONS

01/22/2015 2:31 AM

http://science.howstuffworks.com/sound-info.htm

Start here!

Fine-tune your question later!

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#2

Re: ACOUSTIC SOLUTIONS

01/22/2015 2:38 AM

Also try Googling "sound absorbing panels", and maybe some other similar phrases.

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#3

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/22/2015 7:21 AM

Conducts sound.

It will take a bit more than a IGU(glass panel) to stop it. It can though be attenuated. So that it's not audible to the human ear. One way is the atmosphere inside the glass. Inert gases can be used. The distance between the glass. Also the materials that space the glass apart can help to attenuate the sound.

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#4

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/22/2015 7:46 AM

If the sound is external, glass panels or any solid wall will reflect sound because of the difference in acoustic impedance between solids and gases, so the amount reflected will not pass through. Sound within a room can be attenuated by acoustic tiles on the ceiling or walls which absorb the sound. Draperies on the walls will also help to a certain extent.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/22/2015 7:57 AM

Actually, not. Glass will act like the skin of a drum head and vibrate sympathetically with the sound source.

Glass will tend to reflect high frequency sounds like birds chirping, but midrange sounds like people talking and bass will not be stopped by glass.

Room treatments may help for sound that is generated inside that room, but it will do little or nothing for glass unless you apply the damping material directly on the glass, which defeats the purpose of a window.

Even with heavy damping material like the specialty composites made by EAR, glass turns out to be a very poor material for stopping sound.

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/22/2015 3:27 PM

OK, you might be right about mid and low frequencies. I guess it depends on how much attenuation you expect.

I do know one thing. Workplace cubicle walls are totally useless for stopping sound!

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/22/2015 8:41 PM

"I do know one thing. Workplace cubicle walls are totally useless for stopping sound!"

So true. This is where choking comes in.

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#15
In reply to #9

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/23/2015 1:58 PM

I have tinnitus, which helps cover the sound from other cubicles. I don't recommend this as a solution, though.

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#5

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/22/2015 7:48 AM

First, sound is retransmitted through walls and windows by vibration. Essentially, a wall will vibrate and then transmit sound to the next room.

Windows are worse. Glass vibrates easily. In fact, the CIA developed a laser system in the 1960s that would bounce a beam off of a glass window and they could hear conversations inside that room or building that way.

So, you want to employ techniques that stop walls, windows, and doors from sympathetic vibration.

Here is what you need to do. The best way is to insulate the walls with fiberglass before the building is drywalled. In extreme cases I have seen two walls of 2X4s built on a pair of 2X6 plates. The 2X4s are staggered so they do not touch each other and fiberglass insulation is weaved in between the two walls to dampen noise. This mechanically isolates the interior wall from the exterior wall as pushing one does not push the other.

In recording studios when glass is needed they use two layers of thick glass that are hung at angles to each other to prevent resonances between the panes.

You are probably dealing with a problem where the walls are already built. In that case the best solution is to apply a second layer of drywall over the side of the wall where the noise is coming from.

In between the drywall you must use a product called Green Glue. This stuff makes what is called a constrained layer damping. This stuff really works and I use it on a pair of large speaker cabinets I built.

Furthermore, any doors should be made of solid wood and weatherstripping applied to all four edges (you will need a transom on the bottom edge with weatherstripping).

Windows are the hardest to seal out sound. A quality double or even triple pane window is required. The glass must be well sealed on the edges. Thick drapes will help a small amount, but you need to stop as much sound entering from the outside as you can.

Again, look at how sound is mitigated in construction of recording studios to understand best practices.

The damping treatment material used inside of studios does not stop sound going through walls or glass. It is there to reduce room resonances inside that alter the room's acoustic frequency response. You are interesting the techniques used to build walls, doors, and windows.

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#13
In reply to #5

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/23/2015 8:40 AM

Thank you Anonymous Hero,

Very useful and pertinent reply.Will work on this and your reply is convincing to resolve the issue.As such I have taken care of the walls(we have brick and cement walls) and i have used Lorient seals on the jamb and head of the door frame(Batwing seal) and automatic drop down seal for the door bottom.The problem was the glass partition and as you said they are problematic,and the only solution i can think of is the change to double layered glass with air gap inbetween and at angles and mounted on the glazing seals.This is for a recording studio.The airborne sound is controlled but the vibrations carried by the glass is the problem,especially in case of drums playing.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/23/2015 1:30 PM

I would start picking the brains of technicians or even owners of local studios to see how they are mitigating the problems.

The studios I help build were long ago and technology keeps moving forward.

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/24/2015 5:16 AM

Thanks.Any info on accoustics will help improving my knowledge on sound control and priciples of acoustics.

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/26/2015 8:24 PM

Studios usually dont have a window to deal with. Makes sound proofing so much harder.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/28/2015 7:08 PM

Oh, yes they do.

There will be a window between the control room and the main studio. There may also be a drum isolation booth and a window is pretty much a must for drummers and band members to coordinate.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/29/2015 2:22 AM

Are you saying those in the control room do not want to put up with the noise at all?

Its more a glas wall than a window, but ok if the designer wants a window he gets a window.

I would probably put a window into the drummers isolation boot - i mean one to the outside - and then sound proof it so the drummer could be seen but not heard!

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#20
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Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/29/2015 6:56 AM

I am saying that visual communications are important and the window minimizes noises and sounds inside the control room from leaking back into the studio.

The control room will have the mix monitors running during the session and you don't want that to filter back into the studio (and vis versa).

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/30/2015 3:12 AM

Gotcha!

Thanks!

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#7

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/22/2015 12:15 PM
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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/22/2015 2:04 PM

Yup. PVB constrained layer dampening glass.

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/22/2015 4:14 PM

...and this....

"Laminated glass made with a polyvinyl butyral (PVB) interlayer can reduce perceived noise by as much as 50 percent over monolithic glazing systems, and laminated glass with a PVB interlayer can be used in any project where structural performance and a high level of sound reduction are required."

http://archrecord.construction.com/resources/conteduc/archives/0411solutia-6.asp

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Acoustic Solutions

01/22/2015 8:48 PM

50% is only a -3 dBm drop. The human ear can detect about a 1 dBm change is sound pressure level.

Also, the attenuation will be very different depending on frequency, so that claim is a little misleading.

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