Brake Calliper Problem

There are a lot of Google hits on "Lubricating Brake Calipers"

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=lubricating%20brake%20calipers

OK thanks. There's plenty there about slide pin lube, but I don't have a problem with that, I have a tub of white brake grease. Can't see anything about my problem, and liquid penetrating/freeing/cleaning products (but not mineral oil based!)

How about a Teflon Dry Lube available in aerosol cans from CRC, DuPont and others. Apply the spray after freeing up and cleaning.

Thanks, worth a try, it might improve freeing up (if and when it goes again)

Anything here?

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Thanks for the links, nothing specific about my problem, but some interesting points.

Next time you need to fix it, give it a decent clean up and then apply MX4 Lanox. It is a Lanolin based anti corrosive lubricant that has good adhesion, is harmless to rubber and doesn't wash off with water.

Here is a link to the product

That might be worth a try too. Not sure whether I can get in UK.

My local brake place has tubes of rubber grease. I don't know about your area but try googling for it as Rubber Grease for brake parts.Jim

I've got a tub of red rubber grease. After cleaning it was a toss-up between applying that, white brake grease, or silicone grease. I've tried white grease and now silicone. If it happens again I'll use the red stuff (after trying the suggestions for improved cleaning/freeing).

Plenty of people on YouTube do, Mildred.

Do what?

Call a Ford service agent for advice, or consult a service manual. To my mind, a grade of grease is the answer, or at least the best answer. In fact , I like the silicon grease solution a lot.

I tend to use Copper paste for brakes, but I have no idea as to whether is OK to use where rubber also is. I have never given it a thought, also never had a problem wither in many years of usage on many cars....

I even use it on wheel bolts, very carefully, just a light smear on the threads! To stop them corroding in place, but as we have to change tyres (and I do wheels as well) twice a year, the problem has mostly resolved itself. Salt on the roads has a lot to answer for!!

The contact resistance between the bolt head or nut and the road wheel itself holds it securely in place. tried and tested over many years....but if you don't like it, don't do it!!! Kapische?

I use copper grease for the metal-to-metal contact parts, but I wouldn't let it get near rubber. First time I've had a problem like this.

I use ordinary grease on wheel nuts, never had a problem of them coming loose. I know plenty of people with wheel nuts so dry and tight they wouldn't have a prayer of getting them off at the roadside.

I used copper on the wheel nuts after an old mechanic tipped me off.......

By the way, what is involved costs & access to replace those rubber bits if ever needed? Weigh off possible damage to what it would cost to replace. maybe once a year or less?

Some holes in thin metal have a fairly hard plastic insert, cut to length and fitted into the hole to protect cables. Maybe that would be a better idea than rubber.

Also, some rubbers are not affected by oil.....but I cannot tell the difference with just looking....

I believe hydraulic brake fluid does not affect rubber (citation needed!).

Here are some good ideas if the rubber is affected:-

Edge Protection

I believe hydraulic brake fluid does not affect rubber..

Wrong! I tried to rehabilitate the braking system on a 23 yr old VW Beetle,with still the original brake fluid as I understood it at the time, and couldn't get a drop (literally) out of the front hoses, even with the pedal on the floor! Says something for the brake master cylinder seals, but the hoses do swell from the oil (process unknown). Hydraulic oil should be changed out at least every ten years (source: internet)

Interesting, I didn't know about developments and what DOT 4 meant.

Going back a few decades, in UK most brakes were either Lockheed or Girling, each with branded brake fluid. We were told never to mix the 2 types, or there would be problems. I don't know whether that was true or an urban myth. Do you happen to know? Was situation similar in US? Am I right thinking any brands of DOT 4 fluid can be mixed?

CORRECTION:

I should have said DOT5 is silicone,not DOT 4 .

('tupid fingers!)

Sorry!

Ah! Thanks for that. Do you know whether DOT 4 and 5 can be mixed? I'm thinking of replacing mine and might consider upgrading.

I'd not mix them.

DOT 5 is silicone, the others, including DOT 5.1 are glycol based.

What is the Difference between DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 Brake ...

Thanks, good link. Surprised to see DOT 5.1 mixable with DOT 4, DOT 5 being the odd one out. Sounds like a recipe for confusion with potentially dangerous consequences. I'd have called the silicone one DOT S1 or something .

Thanks also to everybody for suggestions. I'll try them if/when it happens again. If in any doubt I'll remove it and have a go at it on the bench. If I'm still not happy I'll get a replacement calliper.

The problem was that Silicone was out there for while. I had some 84 trucks that used aircraft brakes on them. We converted to silicone in about 1990. It was only starting to be listed as DOT 5 then. It could not be mixed with anything else. Later we saw "LMA" or low moisture absorbent fluid being sold without any specific new DOT listing. Later the DOT 5.1 standard showed up. That was compatible with other DOT rated brake fluids, but would degrade to the lowest rated fluid used in the mix. That is how the DOT 5.1 was explained to me.

OK, thanks for the history.

Latest, if anybody's interested.

After last attempt at freeing/greasing, it felt good at the lever, 1 - 2 clicks and firm. Trouble was it didn't hold too well on a hill, and when I jacked up the wheel turned freely with the brake on! The calliper had seized solid. I had a scrap calliper which I dismantled and the shaft is about 12mm dia with 2 O-rings, so hard to see how it could have got stiff, let alone seize solid. So I think my attempts to lubricate it were a waste of time, and it's something mechanical inside. It's too much trouble to dismantle it to check, Herr Bosch has seen to that!

Replaced the calliper with a used one, £20. All OK now.

Thanks again for everybody's help.

A GA from me for keeping us updated. Since your original post i have had to try and free up a 50mm rusted on nut. I used copious quantities of WD40 and as i could move the nut a little in each direction i felt it would work. After 6 hrs of working back and forth and squirting WD40 on it i gave up and cut it off with oxy. The WD40 had not got down even 1 thread. As water gets in maybe next time i will try water mixed with coolant oil.

Jim

GA

You were first. A great post!!!

???

I know brake hoses can close up and restrict flow, or more likely restrict flow back when the brake is released. This has been suggested as the reason for problems posted on this forum. But there's no sensible alternative that I'm aware of to brake fluid in a braking system .

That is a sure sign of aging, but I am not sure it defines what you appear to think it does, according to your post.....

Brake hoses are known to get old age problems, even under the best conditions, such as you mention, but unless some complete idiot filled up with a mineral oil instead of say Dot x Hydraulic oil (or whatever Beetles use), I do not believe the problem is exactly as you said...

I personally would not have even tried to use 23 year old hoses! (assuming I understood you correctly!)

All safety stuff needs to be replaced on a car not even half that age........Just to be safe!!! The fluid needs to be replaced at 2-3 year intervals as it soaks up water.....which then rusts the cylinders and the like.....

On a 23 year old car, all brake parts basically need replacing, as does the clutch mechanism, the tyres and a good all round checkup by a Beetle expert....even brake lines may be rusting from the inside out....

So don't blame the Hydraulic fluid......

Not only brake hoses!

From Andy: "I used copper on the wheel nuts after an old mechanic tipped me off......."

I use the copper based anti-seize on the wheel nuts also. The concern is over-tightening. The "wet" torque required for proper bolt stretch is about 45% of dry torque. The fight comes when I have service performed and they insist on using the dry torque. I then have to retorque in their parking lot.

I haven't compared, but I would be surprised if it was that much as the turning resistance of the bolt heads against the wheel metal must be very high.

But even if true, I use a torque wrench, so instead of the 40lbs/feet, it will be around 55 (just guessed!). Well within the bounds of normal. Especially when people tighten wheel nuts without such a tool....some using a big scaffold tube for extra leverage.....my possible error is nothing in comparison!!

Thanks for the heads up!

DOW 111 compound

Expensive as hell but worth it!!!

If the caption this section is to be believed, rabbit fur oil might be worth a try

Or, quite believably, Vaseline.

As Vaseline is a mineral oil product, some rubbers will be affected....

Over time! unless you are into 24 - 48 hour sex and to only use one rubber!!!

1) If you are waiting for me to recommend KY jelly, don't hold your breath...

2) If youv'e been talking to my wife...she tends to exaggerate!

Are you certain the problem is in the lever assembly?

You are speaking of the emergency brake mechanism,not the hydraulic portion,right?

It sounds as if it may be in the cable instead.

Sometimes the cable will rust internally,inside of the cable covering.

If this is the case,try to force some lube into the space between the cable and the outer covering by using a rubber tube and compressed air.

Force a tight fitting tube over the end of the cable,fill it with a good lube,and apply compressed air to force the oil through the cable sheath.

If the cable is simply a bare steel cable, the problem may be in the routing through the frame.

Try to force lube into the point where it exits the frame.

Try to access the cable at the other end(inside the vehicle) and apply lube there also.

Good luck!

Good post, I agree with you, but a replacement is often the only real longterm cure with Bowden cables, well lubricated (just as you posted) before installation.....

I had a car (years ago) with a cable operated gear change (some have it even today!), the cables lasted well 4 or 5 years, but when they were shot, it was a waste of time trying to improve them with lube, it would get them going for a day or two, luckily till the new ones arrived.

In 9 years I did it only once on my own car, it was a "no brainer", everything exactly sized, no adjustment needed (Mitsubishi!!) it was also interesting just how light the gear change was with the new cables....huge difference!!!

I remember an old VW bug,form the '60's that had a problem very similar.

I removed the cable,put a full length brazing rod into a drill,after flattening the end of the rod to barely fit in the hole,and applied penetrating oil as I pushed the rod through the hole all the way to the brake lever inside.

After about 10 complete routings,I blew out the crud from the tubing and forced in spray grease from below.

I forced this until it came out the opposite end using compressed air.

I then cleaned and lubed the cable,which was in good condition,and reinstalled.

End of problems for good.

The cables that I have had problems with (except for those on my bike!) were so made that removing the inner was impossible to do...

Congrats on a good job done.

I have been reduced to trying to get it around the cable and any bits and pieces attached, not good!!

On Motocross bikes,I have been able to slip a piece of silicon(not latex) surgical tubing over the upper end,which usually has only a small ferrule attached.

An alternative is a piece of heat shrink tubing,shrunken after getting it over the ferrule,and using it to couple to a larger hose or fitting.

I then fill the length of tubing,(about 300 MM,) with a teflon-containing lubricant,and let it sit overnight.

It will trickle down into the cable slowly,and usually solves the problem.

The crimp ferrules and crimp tool are available if you need to remove it,and there is normally sufficient length to allow for the slightly shortened cable.

If really stubborn clog,you can shrink onto a fitting for compressed air.

I hadn't thought 'cable' and this is worth some attention. A little liquid lubricant applied at the highest point should do it...UK you say ? William Penn may have a ready-to-use product....

I did suspect the cable (it's Bowden type) might be part of the problem, but I checked, and with the crank held forward to give about 10mm clearance, the inner moves freely. I replaced the cables 5 years ago, one of the originals was rusty and breaking up, as well as restricting movement. The replacements are better, with an external plastic sleeve.

Ref your #22, I had something similar with a Mk. 3 Cortina in mid-70s. Cable-operated clutch and it had an annoying rattle, tracked down to the cable. No way to remove the inner, so fitted a short length of heater hose over one end, with the end fitting inside, and connected a side-handle grease gun to the other end with hose clips. Pumped it up till the hose swelled, then worked the inner from the other end, and after a few goes the grease came through. Cured the rattle, I thought it might cause sluggish clutch action, but it was OK.

Good trick!!!

Time to replace, i had the same problem, replaced the seal kit, still the problem, replaced the caliper, problem solved.

Synthetic grease is the answer. It does not cause swelling in any rubber products that I know of, The Dow 111 may be synthetic, I do not remember. If you are up to some labor, you could remove the metal parts, clean them grease free, and then coat them with a good quality moly lube. Once that dries, it should provide decent protection from corrosion. Then the synthetic grease. I have used a Dow Moly that had some crap in it that took some set up time ( 60 min.) but was durable, and did not wash off easily. Caution. spray moly smells BAD. Do not use near family members.