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Was a Murphy Mover used to build pyramids?

Posted January 23, 2007 4:56 PM

From Boing Boing:

A fellow by the name of James Murphy says his invention might have been used by the Egyptians to build the pyramids. It appears to be some kind of swing. But either Murphy or the author of the article doesn't understand physics. James Murphy said his Apex Delivery and Lifting System - or Murphy Mover - is more than just an explanation. It's a nearly energy free way of lifting and moving large objects. It doesn't take much power and doesn't need any major outside energy - just gravity. There's no getting around the laws of physics. To move a load on a swing, you have to apply force to it. There's an excellent pendulum simulation you can play around with after jump.

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Associate

Join Date: Mar 2006
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#1

Re: Was a Murphy Mover used to build pyramids?

01/24/2007 9:26 AM

To move a very large number of very heavy objects does require a lot of energy, but Murphy's claim that his machine requires low power is a slightly different matter. Power is the time based rate of power delivery and a lot of energy can be delivered over time with low power. If your work (energy) source is humans, then you have a lot more energy than power, so the Murphy mover may meet the criteria as advertised. This does not prove the Egyptians used a Murphy mover, just that if the straw boss only had a Murphy Mover in his tool box, they might have gotten by with it. You use the tools you have! My question is, "Had they heard of bifurcation and how did they avoid it, or where did the get timbers with adequate strength and rigidity to basically set-up over the growing pyramid of stones?"

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Was a Murphy Mover used to build pyramids?

01/24/2007 1:51 PM

While I don't entirely agree that the Egyptians would have even had the local resources or know-how to build the Murphy mover, it is a hell of a lot better than the pictures of Egyptians lifting huge stone slabs using a counterweighted beam made entirely out of bundles of dry reeds (which is what we learned from library books back at school). Did no one think at any point "hang on, somethings not quite right here!" . Even the so-called sonic resonator stone device that the aliens left as part of a larger machine to lift stones using sound waves makes more sense than this drivel (dry reeds that is) (oh, the sonic device theory was in a TV documentary regarding the face on mars and the aliens involvement in the pyramid construction). Give me Stargate SG1 any day (at least the science and engineering jobs and people were portrayed as exciting and sexy, which we are). Disturbingly, in comparison, it is also more believable in some ways. Makes you think.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Was a Murphy Mover used to build pyramids?

01/24/2007 1:59 PM

Oops! My mistake. Power is the time base rate of energy delivery. Going to fast. I should be working!

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Guru

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#4

Re: Was a Murphy Mover used to build pyramids?

01/24/2007 2:55 PM

Sorry James Murphy. Your system for erecting the pryramids, if such it is, just won't "cut the mustard" or anything else for construction work of any kind I am aware of.

For a more realistic system see http://www.theforgottentechnology.com with videos of the processes of moving large and heavy objects. Timbers? Imported Cedars of Lebanon or from the upper reaches of the Nile River.

Best explanation I have seen to date.

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#5

Re: Was a Murphy Mover used to build pyramids?

01/26/2007 11:55 AM

maybe I'm missing something here, but wouldn't the egyptians still have had to lift the gigantic stone up into the "swing" before they could use this thing? You can't swing something if it is resting on the ground??

So we're back at square one, how did the egyptians lift these frickin' huge blocks?

Also walking up the incline with this device is something I'd like to see, once the front legs were resting much higher than the back legs, a small over-swing in the "down-hill" direction would shift the center of gravity too far back and send the entire devide toppling back wards.

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Associate

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Was a Murphy Mover used to build pyramids?

01/26/2007 12:30 PM

Mr. Murphy must have investigated some chronology of invention, because if the block and tackle were known to the ancient Egyptians, all this swinging stuff is irrelevant. Assuming they were not aware of the block and tackle concept, lets go back to our childhood. When you got the swing so high that the teachers started screaming at you, remember that the chains would go slack. If they swung the block high enough, they could jerk this slack and gain a little (shorten the pendulum, if you will) with judicious timing. Also, remember the carnival ride that had no external power source what-so-ever. It was a box in which the rider stood and shifted his weight back and forth to set up a swinging motion. Because the box was attached to the fixed axle by a rigid member, you could put enough energy into this to not only go level, but swing it over the top!

So, now we have this multi-ton block suspended a couple of hundred feet above the ground beneath the Murphy Mover, a couple of dozen slaves riding it and inducing the swinging motion, several hundred on the ground holding the rope: they might gain 2 inches of elevation every few hours -- if everyone could hold up their task. This also assumes the base of this thing was adequately stable (remember, some swing sets would tip, but others wouldn't).

While the physics may be there, consideration of the availability of adequate timbers and rope and humans' ability to coordinate an effort leaves me with very serious doubts. Would there be room for an adequate number of slaves to find a hand-hold on the rope? But, wait -- the rope could be multiply divided at the end, like a cat on nine-tails (900-tails). I don't believe we can prove the Murphy Mover impossible in theory. Humans can do some crazy stuff, but I keep coming back to the timbers. How could adequate timbers exist. I'm not sure giant redwoods would be adequate.

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