Diesel Engines and Fuel Quality

The fuel oil needs to be treated mainly purification which is achieved more efficiently by oil cetrifuges.

no need to heat diesel oil or otherwise it evaporates and creates a vapour lock in the line

but for less use or home use it is not advisible coz centrifuges are quit expensive.

I think blaming fuel degradation even partially on the relatively short exposure to the pressures and temperatures in the fuel injector pump and recirculation lines is nothing but a bunch of advertising nonsense. Fuel injector pumps are highly efficient devices that add little waste energy to the recycled liquid. It is hard to imagine how the mechanical energy that goes to heat as it flows through the bypass valve could cause the fuel to reach a temperature where the hydrocarbon molecules would begin to break down. Further, I question the claim that high pump pressures cause damage to the fuels basic hydrocarbon molecules. Nor does it seem likely that common fuel additives have such sensitivity.

I have no argument with degradation from other causes such as biological action or reactions with oxidizers of one type or another. And it is certainly true that such reactions are accelerated by higher temperatures. But the accumulation of sludge this way is a time at temperature phenomenon. And most of the time the fuel is at the temperature that exists in the fuel tank.

I note that the lengthy informercial by algaex talks of this only in generalities without presenting any specifics to justify their claim of degradation due to "high pressures and temperatures".

Ed Weldon

True, if it were actually a problem, all the engine makers would have already solved it.

You are correct. Why has CR4 admin not moved this post to the commercial space? This article is an infomercial, and an implausible one at that.

Several people have remarked that this "blog" is a thinly disguised suite of infomercials. I don't know of anything grossly false, but it certainly is slanted. I would bump it into the commercial section, and some others have actually complained. The moderators/editors, whether old team or new, seem remarkably obtuse about this, with lame explanations. If nothing else, I would think that the revenue potential from commercials would exceed that from blogs....

And it appears my original post on this thread has been deleted. I have been looking into this product off and on since the first time I saw it and it seemed to me to be not quite right.

Look here for my full argument against this form of scam products. Or here for the full thread.

Drew

Drew,

I agree with these citations, although I did not say anything at the time. I didn't notice the deletion of any items, but I wasn't looking very closely, so maybe I missed something.

Aw, c'mon Tornado. You and I have know each other for awhile. If you're going to call me "obtuse" and "lame", at least have the courtesy to name me publicly or send me a private message.

Moose

I'll have to look again, but I don't think I was referring to you; I believe it was someone or sometwo else who gave algaex a free pass. In general, however, not all of the moderating decisions have been transparent, so it isn't necessarily easy to name names.

Care to share which editor [ad exec] approved this?

Moose is not a moderator

But hopefully he can share some of his unique insights, being part of the staff

SavvyExacta mentions here that an editor followed up with me on this topic, Moose posted comments that seem to 'follow up' on my posts.

Moose seems to be an Editor, but is not a moderator. It seems there are official positions that can moderate or operate with Authority but are not official moderators.

Drew

Well said, Drew K. My job is to help provide the site with content (in the form of blog entries) that generate discussion. Some of this content you'll like. Some of the content you'll hate. Either way, I welcome your feedback. You can reach me by commenting in a thread (as you've done here), or by sending me a private message.

Hi,

My largest problem with duesel fuel is a biofuel mix. It seems that the biofuel scrubbed the tank and everything else clean which resulted in filter problems which I solved largly with a filter bank from Pall. Then there was the problem of a stringy, snot like material that I was told was the indication of poorly blended BioDiesel. It seems that the teir 3 and up engines are real sensitive to fuel so I guess there will be a lot of talk about it in the future.

I recall a problem the Air Force had with a substance they called 'apple jelly' that sounds like what your snot like material.

I never did hear the end of it so I don't know for certain. The A.F. uses some additives in the fuel to increase conductivity and lower the freeze or gel point of jet fuel so they can fly at higher altitudes. It was thought that the additives were mixing together with water and separating out.

Here is a link (apple jelly) confirming what I recalled. Is it possible your fuel comes from a source that shares tanks or pipelines with the U.S. Air Force? Unfortunately I am not certain if other countries use the same additives in their fuel.

Are you certain that your diesel is a biofuel blend? I haven't heard of diesel being blended (but there is lots I haven't heard). I know it is common with gasoline now and I support its initiative. There have been many problems with ethanol blended gasolines because the ethanol will absorb and mix with any water it encounters. Small quantities don't matter much, but the greater the quantity the more it disrupts combustion by absorbing heat and causing uneven burn. Also in sufficient quantities water volume can overwhelm ethanol quantities and instead of having mixed gasoline and a ethanol / water mix, you have gasoline and a separated out water / ethanol mix. Commonly in the U.S. you can find ethanol gasoline blends mixed to about 10%. If too much water is introduced, you could suddenly find a gallon of water / ethanol at the bottom of your 10 gallon tank.

Additionally ethanol tends to damage gaskets and certain types of fittings in fuel systems as well as dissolving emulsified fuels on tank walls and floating pans.

It is for these reasons that ethanol blends are not usually added to gasoline stocks until the product is being loaded into the transport trucks going to the service stations.

Ethanol is not without its benefits though. It does slightly lower the BTU value of blended gasolines, but it also raises the octane rating. The refineries have taken advantage of this and un-blended gasoline in pipelines and their storage tanks has a low octane rating (about 60?). Once blended with ethanol at the terminals the octane rating is increased to the normal 87 or 92(?).

Personally I like blended gasolines because I feel it is good for the local economy. I like the fact that farmers now have another outlet for their products. This makes them more money so they can spend more money in their towns and countrysides.

Drew

From the AXI site:

• Algae-x (AXI) is listed on GlobalSpec.com. GlobalSpec is the leading specialized vertical search, information services and e-publishing company serving the engineering, manufacturing and related scientific and technical market segments. AXI releases news, tech specs, and soon will be posting CAD drawings of our fuel optimization systems, Fuel Conditioners, Diesel fuel transfer, and fuel polishing systems. We will also be publishing our white papers on clean fuel technology, and much more information on one of the world's largest engineering search engines.

CR4 is now in the infomercial business. Keep your eyes open for great new tech info from the Marvel Mystery Oil people, and a "test" (wink, wink) of the best fuel line magnets.

Next they will be offering an HHO device. This is exactly what I didn't want to blemish CR4's image.

If this is the direction CR4 is going, it will probably be going without me.

Moose, I seem to see a broad consensus of members who are in agreement that this is a scam. Even if you insist it is not an advertisement or an endorsement, Algae X obviously does. Will you take action now? Or will you just remove this post also?

Drew

Drew,

I am going to close this post, remove it from the home page, and stop posting content from either Algae-X or any GlobalSpec suppliers. I am indeed serious when I say, as I wrote in one of my other comments this morning, that I welcome the feedback of the community. And it's pretty clear that the community doesn't want blog content like this.

So, I'm closing shop on this project and moving on to the next thing.

Best,

Moose

I have absolutely no problem with Globalspec putting infomercials up here for us to review. But review we will. That is what we're all about here. It should be perfectly reasonable for all parties concerned to expect a critical review from us commentators.

Globalspec's advertisers should be ready for scientificly questionable technical claims for a product to be discussed and challenged. The usual enthusiastic non-numerical adjectives the accompany many sales pitches may find themselves on shaky ground in this venue especially if the advertiser is not prepared to present credible data to support them.

But all of us CR-4 members need to note that the advertisers are paying the bills that support this forum we enjoy. We need to be respectful in our replies. If you don't think your critical comment would be appropriate for a scientific paper prepared for publishing in a recognized journal then it is probably not appropriate here in these particular cases.

Ed Weldon

Drew K and latest Guest -- GA's guys......

Both of you make important points, that I agree with. I guess it boils down to that familiar variant of the golden rule, "He who has the gold makes the rules". This begs the question what is the real gold here? The forum? Or the content? Or both? One cannot live without the other.

Ed Weldon

Just to clarify one of the breakthrough technologies being promoted by AlgaeX:

The ALGAE-X FMC unit operates on the principle of induction on the process of combining kinetic and magnetic energy to influence the behavior of electrons. Algae-X provides a powerful magnetic field and the flow of fuel provides the kinetic energy.

(You can find this gem under the heading "Algae-X Technology" on this page. )

No weasel words there eh? Does the magnetic "energy" get used up? Moose can probably explain how this works in greater detail for those of you who lack the engineering background to be able to understand.

What a hoot! Just one more thing that would disincline me from buying their products.

I wonder if maybe they have shot themselves in the foot with this masquerade.

I have to agree, but is it themselves (did you notice the company name? in link above your post) or GS for putting their client in the spotlight?

EPA & IRS will be interested in the Catalyst

which is an additive, required to have approval & meet ASTM specs, for use as a motor fuel either on or off road

they best have all their ducks in a row

the description sounds like Biodiesel

all the promo material is long on claims & short on science/data

very careful not to quantify anything