Engineering News Blog

Engineering News

Latest news of interest to engineers. Sourced from GlobalSpec's Engineering News

Previous in Blog: How Daylight-Saving Time Works   Next in Blog: TechFest Explores Future Technologies
Close
Close
Close
11 comments
Rate Comments: Nested

Biofuels: An advisable strategy?

Posted March 07, 2007 12:56 PM

From EurekAlert! - Breaking News:

Biofuels have been an increasingly hot topic on the discussion table in the last few years. The main argument behind the policies in favour of biofuels is based on the idea that biofuels would not increase the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. However, a more careful analysis of the life cycle of biodiesel reveals that the energy (and CO2) savings is not so high as it might even be negative.

Read the whole article

Reply

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: Biofuels: An advisable strategy?

03/07/2007 11:27 PM

I wonder which oil company employs the author of the article?

In Texas there are hundreds of thousands of acres sitting idle in winter because canola is not grown except in the panhandle of the state.

I don't think doubling the productivity of the land as well as financially strengthening the ag sector is a bad thing. Maybe then we could get rid of the farm subsidies.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 200
Good Answers: 8
#2

Re: Biofuels: An advisable strategy?

03/08/2007 12:59 AM

The article is riddles with error too numerous to discuss.

The increase in Mexico tortillo price has nothing to do with American ethanol. In 2006 Mexico experienced reduced corn yield due to local drought. The price of American corn does not affect local corn prices in Mexico.

The tractor time to produce 150 bushel of corn is 7 minutes (www.UTK.gov) or less than the time most commute daily. Two average American homes are heated on less than 10 minutes tractor time annually. This is actual experience and not a theoratical number.

The conversion of corn to ethanol is not a factor. Corn combustion of whole kernel shelled corn does not necessitate conversion of corn to moonshine alcohol. Energy ignorance is only one of many educated ignorant subjects. Governments and utilities promote public educated ignorance as testified by Billl Gates to Senator Kennedy on 030707. http://www.gatesfoundation.org

www.groups.yahoo.com/group/cornstoves is the location to gain a real education on renewable fuels. Over 200 members share actual accounts of real life savings.

In short, if you personally reduce your energy bill by 90%, do you really think total global pollution increased?

Listen to Ali Gore. The Goring advise is pollution is not a personal individual responsibility to reduce his 1000 tons pollution per year but rather the responsibility of "governments and 'the public'" end of quote. Apparently, global warnings come from idiots that are not members of the public.

__________________
Corn Stoves
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#6
In reply to #2

Re: Biofuels: An advisable strategy?

03/08/2007 11:46 AM

Whilst I have no adverse comment about corn stoves, it is totally untrue that ethanol production has affected Mexican maize prices.

Mexican prices shot up, helped by speculation as well, but basically because the maize for animal feed has traditionally come from the USA. When the local importers of US maize saw what was happening with US prices, due primarily to growing ethanol production, they bought up the local Mexican maize that traditionally went for the staple tortilla.

Ethanolinflation !

Reply
Guru
Belgium - Member - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Glabbeek, Belgium
Posts: 1480
Good Answers: 28
#3

Re: Biofuels: An advisable strategy?

03/08/2007 4:02 AM

None of the alternative solutions on its own will result in the solution to solve the problems we are facing.

Governmental obligation is the only way to get out of the vicious circle: if you let the mass decide on the solution, it will be the cheapest.

Only a combination of small initiatives that will solve the issue at the end.

If we would stop using oil based fuels to heat our houses and as main propellant for small distance transport (less than 100 km/day) the CO2 saving would be gigantic.

What should we use as energy source? The sun, wind, water (tidal and gravitational) are free to take and use. You only have to invest to be able to use it.

Will the mass start to do this without obligation? In no way.

Will industry take the decision and flip over? No, they keep on generating nice documents to proof their truth: as long as share holders make nice money there is nothing wrong with what we do.

If corn prices are going up due to the growing use of corn in the US, great, finally the farmers will be gaining the money they are entitled to. And the poor southern civilisation will have a nice future to look to: decent paid work on their own fields, in their own country. And as crop prices are worth it, irrigation can be feasible.

Gwen

__________________
"Here we are now, entertain us"
Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1059
Good Answers: 12
#4

Re: Biofuels: An advisable strategy?

03/08/2007 9:01 AM

Biomass is the easiest and most affordable way for the average person to heat their home. They can grow their own trees, and pollard or coppice them for more efficient growth and easier handling, and maximizing productivity. Corn stover and grasses, wood chips etc can also be used. New stoves and furnaces are clean burning and meet EPA standards.

Biomass generators are now developed that will supply a family's electricity too.

Distributed energy is the key to line loss and energy independence. Americans are being ripped off by the power companies, and their bought off politicians like Emile Jones State Senate leader in Illinois.

Biomass can be coburned in "clean coal" plants to improve the combustion mix, and lower pollutants.

Ron Wagner

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Averill Park, NY
Posts: 250
Good Answers: 4
#5

Re: Biofuels: An advisable strategy?

03/08/2007 10:40 AM

Things often unmentioned about biofuels are

  • biofules release more greenhouse gases on a normalized basis vs octane
  • the idea of sequestering green house gases by excessive corn production has never been proven to offset the carbon cycle... the most balanced carbon cycle recognizes anthropogenic sources but negates any terrestrial sink at all
  • Many upstream costs such as fertilization are often not taken into consideration when comparing gasolin to ethanol
  • ethanol production will prolongue the use of fossil fules causing more damage to our environment and puts more money in the pockets of oil companies... check out what E85 is made of...

Future best practices may be.... building more reliable nuclear energy plants... start recycling spent Uranium rods in the states ...stop burying them in Yuka Mountain... Improve electric vehicles

__________________
"There isn't a scientific community. It's a culture. It is a very undisciplined organization." ~ Francois Rabelais
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Houston,Texas
Posts: 378
Good Answers: 24
#7

Re: Biofuels: An advisable strategy?

03/08/2007 2:28 PM

Biomass as source of energy is a fairy tale concept from the start. It is fundamentally a means to capture solar energy and make a transportation fuel. However it is grossly inefficient at doing so. We must augment much of the 'process' with conventional hydrocarbon based energy sources, significantly reducing the CO2 credit---some argue to less than even.


The REAL fact is diverting farmland to energy production WILL reduce food production. The US is a major EXPORTER of food to the rest of the world. If we divert that farmland (now growing food for export), millions of people will die of starvation. How many? don't know yet. The economic balance between 'bio-energy' fuel and 'food' has yet to be explored. Corn to ethanol for fuel drives up the cost of beef, milk, mutton, pork, chicken--all high quality protein sources. Diverting land from soy production to 'ethanol' does similarly. Diverting grain cereals farms to 'bio-fuel' drives up cost of animal feeds, as well as human cereal consumption costs.

__________________
Keith E Bowers, PMP
Reply
Guru
Belgium - Member - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Glabbeek, Belgium
Posts: 1480
Good Answers: 28
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Biofuels: An advisable strategy?

03/09/2007 2:54 AM

The US and the EU are mayor exporters of food, not directly because the others can't do it themselves.

No it is our idea on farming and subsidized farming that killed the small local farmers.

The big scale solutions we tend to implement can generate food at such low cost that it is cheaper to transport it all over the world than to grow you own corn on a field nearby.

Offering those farmers now a solution to start cultivating energy crops, is perhaps the least bad thing. We buy these crops at a better price than what they can get from local sales of food products.

The fact that we have to find a way our of the fossil fuel circle is good for those who can offer a solution and have nothing to do elsewhere.

In some decades the easy fossil fuel sources are going to be finished. Prices will go up and automatically the alternative bio fuels are going to be accepted.

When you would make the energy balance of one liter of petrol compared with one liter of biodiesel, the difference is only minor.

__________________
"Here we are now, entertain us"
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Averill Park, NY
Posts: 250
Good Answers: 4
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Biofuels: An advisable strategy?

03/09/2007 8:43 AM

Biodiesel is as bad if not worse for the environment and the corn crop is actually not the preferred method of producing biofuels. Using celluslose, like saw dust or other waste products requires fewer upstream costs and in so becomes less harmful for the environment. If you care for your fair moderate weather you should really start thinking about more environmental friendly energy sources.

__________________
"There isn't a scientific community. It's a culture. It is a very undisciplined organization." ~ Francois Rabelais
Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1059
Good Answers: 12
#11
In reply to #7

Re: Biofuels: An advisable strategy?

03/11/2007 10:36 PM

Cellulosic ethanol can be grown on wastelands, and in the process, turn them in to valuable and more attractive land. This will be a boon for the millions of acres of wastelands around the world, and in the USA. It will create many jobs in agriculture, and manufacturing and service. Building power plants, stoves, service, delivery etc. This is money now going outside the country.

Biofuels can be burned cleanly, and reduce greenhouse gases. There will be no shortage of food. The worlds problem is now obesity, not famine. Famine only exists where totalitarian governments are oppressing the people. Many grasses will fix nitrogen in poor soils, and reach deep into the soil to find water. The new groundcover will create humidity, and attract more dew and rain.

Ron Wagner

Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5800
Good Answers: 114
#10

Re: Biofuels: An advisable strategy?

03/10/2007 8:29 AM

There is no "1" solution.

Biodiesel from tallow, not crops may be the answer for the "EU".

Here in grape country canola between the rows could work.

sugarbeets instead of corn for ethanol

the oil could be extracted from corn Before ethanol production, though this does decrease the shelf life of the brewers waste used to feed live stock.

Increased efficeny in the transportation sector [ hybreds,air, hydraulic, improvments in logistics....]

distributed production of electricity [line loses]

Use of solar, wind, tidal, gravity, where feasible & practical

Positive incremental changes

It's not so much that energy resources are running out, or that climate change is accelerating

The developing world, is going to be upgrading, to the western lifestyle.[ Communication, transportation, entertainment ].

more energy is being consumed.

traditional energy resources will be in increasingly short supply.

other options will hit the market & have their viability tested.

Reply
Reply to Blog Entry 11 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (2); Cornstoves (1); Garthh (1); Gwen.Stouthuysen (2); Keith E Bowers (1); ronwagn (2); Shawn (2)

Previous in Blog: How Daylight-Saving Time Works   Next in Blog: TechFest Explores Future Technologies

Advertisement