Is A Good Meeting Possible?

Good meetings? They are a virtuous circle: every good meeting encourages the attendees to be there when next needed. I love, I LOVE your concept of making latecomers contribute to the snack account ... up to a maximum of 5 minutes late.

Agenda? Oh yes, if there is no agenda circulated in advance, intelligent invitees may not bother attending. Invitees who do attend your agenda-free 'surprise party' may not bring with them essential documents nor do necessary preparation. Mark's Principle of Business Life No. 37 reads "No agenda? Then it's not a meeting".

Short and on track? The fact of pre-issuing the agenda will often be all you need to ensure these qualities. It will indicate the start time. START AT THE START TIME and record the arrival time of latecomers. Lock the door after five minutes and ignore external knocking, calling, pleading and sobbing sounds.

Productive? It was not going to be a meeting if there was no agenda. If it WAS truly a meeting, then minutes will be kept that prove and record the productivity:
* outcomes and agreements
* action plans and schedules
* the promises, promises list.

If there are no minutes distributed, then it was not a meeting. Promptly distribute the minutes electronically, tasking the minute taker to have attendees initial their correct email addresses before they exit the meeting room. There is no need to send minutes to invitees who did not attend, as they have demonstrated they are not stakeholders.

If Fido does not come when called to dinner, put it in the fridge as tomorrow's dinner. Embargo discussion with those who made external knocking, calling, pleading and sobbing sounds, because they are just the ants crawling on Fido's leftovers.
:)
Mark Bingham
Relativity PL

Fine assumptions where those attending the meeting are all from the same location. We regularly attend important meetings across the country, and cannot always ensure the travel time between them is delay-free. Internal meetings with set agendas can last from half an hour up to most of the day, depending on the level of interest in the topics (some months run smoothly, not much to discuss; others run on as there is a lot to be said). It is more important to ensure everyone has a chance to be heard, and that the follow-up is prompt and targetted than to close off a subject arbitrarily due to time - unless the points raised make a special/sub/meeting or additional time for the next a neccessity.

"We regularly attend important meetings across the country, and cannot always ensure the travel time between them is delay-free."

Silly me! Since you knew from experience you could not guarantee your travel would be delay-free, the other ten of us will just cool our heels, talk about the weather and text our friends. We'll wait a couple of hours for you, fending off the pushy, pushy group with the next reservation for the meeting room, rather than noting in the minutes your failure to choose the option to risk arriving early - instead of your alternative choice to risk arriving late.

By the way, your train home just departed without you. It left on schedule. The inconsiderate bastards didn't wait for you. Cue the stentorian Sir John Gielgud, "STOP THAT TRAIN!"
:(

Mark Bingham
Relativity PL

Indeed, the key word surely is 'IMPORTANT'
if it's that important, wouldn'y you travel the night before and book a hotel?
It's that old 'URGENT' thing again...
A month ago I rushed an 'URGENT' prototype out.
It then sat in it's box untested by the recipient for a month.
He then took it to his customer to demponstrate it and found a few minor problems...
D'uh. If he'd check it on arrival, I could have posted a new chip, or if I hadn't been given a false deadline I could have implemented the entire wish list or made sure the paperwork and software did actually match up correctly. In future with 'Urgent' jobs I shall ask 'is that your urent or my urgent'...
Important?..urgent?... yeah whatever..< shugs and meanders off to cosy cat nest>.
Del <rant mode off>

PS. Of course in the UK we've just had some snow...WHAT? SNOW? IN WINTER? surely not.
Anyhow, everything has ground to a halt... snow is tantamount to the sky falling for us Brits, I dare say any of you guys in the snowy areas of the planet fall about laughing at this.

When these meetings may be several hundred miles from base, and "only an hour's drive" apart, the travel-to-area is done the day before.

Often these meetings involve several companies and getting a day when each can have a representative present is difficult.

Can I afford the travelling time to arrange them in separate weeks?

Anyway, who has only ONE thing to do in a day?? Is your business that quiet?

Frequently, we will only attend a section of the meeting as we are experts in our particular field, so adjusting meeting order can usually allow a reasonable degree of flexibility.

As Del says, a good Chairperson is vital to a good meeting, and will ensure the most is made of the meeting, allowing those arriving late to join where their input is judged to be valuable to the progress/outcome required.

The key to a good meeting is a chairmain who can keep it moving, stop bloated marketing director waffling on about some irrelevant trivial and push for actual decisions.
If there isn't a clear concensus or decision, then simply action someone specific to come up with the decison, or relevant information by a fixed date or defer it to the next meeting.
The number of meetings I've been to where the chairman say something like , ok well we have to look at blah blah blah.. Who is actioned to 'look at it'? By when? And once they've looked WTF are they supposed to do about it?
Last January I was told 'we must have a meeting about those displays...' yes folks, that was last January.
That reminds me, we must have a meeting about the KriDelTM Christmas party sometime...maybe after the holday?... oh and BTW did you all get your invites? Where's that damn Squirrel?
Del

There is a presumption here that everybody knows about committee structure and procedure, and also the rules of debate. Especially the chairman - or is it chairwoman or just Chair? Or maybe Convener - as is called the person conducting an ISO meeting.

The latter having to keep control of representatives from around the World - not least of which is a language problem - which luckily for me all meetings I attend are conducted in English - often where foreign delegates seem to speak it better than I do.

Agendas and time keeping are not a problem. Where I see room for improvement is in the preparation. I spend a great deal of my time getting my technical facts together often in writing prior to the meeting only to find that nobody has bothered to read the document. I can guess why, and here I could do with some help.

In my case I am trying to promote a specific technical point on a safety issue to tighten up a 'slack' proposal in a draft standard - in a specialised subject that nobody else (on the committee) has any real technical knowledge - but nevertheless could cause them problems if they accept my proposals - so they ignore me. Thus the 'slack' limit stays - because with with little or no support the Chair has halted discussion and moved to next business.

Strictly speaking ISO meetings produce technical standards by consensus. Except that 'consensus' is sometimes conveniently read as 'majority'. The details of the matter have not been recorded in the Minutes but will appear on the Agenda for the next meeting. Unfortunately (for me) the 'slack' draft has passed further through to ISO system making it harder to change.

Further, to complicate my case, is the fact that my special subject is only one of 200 hundred or so points to cover. Which means going to meetings (usually spanning 3 days) around the World. Luckily a couple of meetings have been held in the UK - except that they never reached my subject. Similarly a trip to Washington had the same result. Only here it was worse because the Icelandic volcano eruption forced me to stay in America an extra 10 days.

Quite frankly I can't afford to keep doing this. I have to pay my expenses out of my own pocket.

However, I believe I am right in pressing my case for a better standard but how can I give impact to my case to 'make' them take notice of me when I am a lone voice.

Any ideas please.

Perhaps avoid using emotive words like "slack" around the sponsors of the original authors?

Bear in mind the outcomes of most meetings in that realm, are prearranged and the function is to educate others as to what has been decided, or to 'enroll them' in sanctioning the decision.

Rather than trying to discuss some inadequacy - try asking how the meeting proposes to "close the loophole?". When they say "what loophole" or deny it's existence - have a dollar cost figure and the 'Well who is liable?' phrase handy.

Thanks 34point5.

I think you are right.

I sense there is a cosy clique of decision makers exerting undue influence and those outside the 'inner-circle' not technically competent to argue the point one way or the other (but I suspect with a secret agenda to oppose me) sit there po-faced in silence and nod in favour of the status quo.

The Convener (in this instance being from the UK and no doubt wanting to be seen to preside over the completion of a successful standard) gets kudos from the majority of foreign delegates by isolating me. Or should I say ISOlating me!

As you say, I need to force a technical response - but I suspect they will say the subject has already been discussed and I am in a minority - not even worth minuting - and any follow-up in writing (by me) in response to lack of a proper record gets ignored.

Further efforts on my part (I have been warned) will result in alienating other committee members to the extent I will be branded as a trouble-maker. Then nobody will support me - which gives the UK a bad name.

I resign in protest. Hooray!

Is that the way it goes?

PS I am not a novice. I have served on BSI, CEN and ISO committees for 25 years, so you would think I have learnt something.

What's all this about travelling to meetings. Unless they are 'local' - they should be video conferences. I haven't had the opportunity to use them of late..but a lot less money spent on air fares / accommodation / car rentals / food etc. Plus no frustrations as to "Where's So and so..Oh, he's at a meeting in [ name your (un) favourite place] and won't be back 'til Friday pm"

Technology's there, just need to use it..and video conferencing facilities ARE available in most cities - ask the phone company or local business convention centre. They'd love to get your business!

Site visits are vital to the effective preparation of our work, and these usually take place around the meetings to save on excessive travel.

We are often sub-contractors in major works, and while it is useful for us to see progress and attend earlier meetings, our work comes as the final part of commissioning. There is much to be gained by seeing the set-up first-hand.

In my case, ISO have set up an on-line conferencing facility - but it seems to be up to each individual committee to adopt.

General comment on this is that most people prefer to go to meetings.

Well I suppose they would. They all get their expenses paid and are all allowed time off their routine jobs to attend.

I have retired, so time-off work is not a problem, but I have to pay my own expenses. Except on some occasions I have qualified for a BSI travel grant - which is minimal.

And when you consider my input is 'not wanted', not being able to afford an expensive 5-day trip across the World stops me attending.

Hooray!

But it makes sense to press for ISO to introduce some compulsion on this, because having to attend time consuming expensive meetings should not be allowed when much cheaper options exist -unless there is an overwhelming need to meet face to face.

Which there often is, but these meetings can be kept short, and to a minimum, by on-line discussions prior to the meeting so that only complex issues need resolution.

This approach will need ISO to make changes in structure and procedure.

Our meetings used to seem like a whole lot of headless chickens farting about a table & amounted to an Official, Important way to F**en waste time. I researched meeting "procedures" considered attendees attitudes & chaired them from then on. I now get what I want from these meetings. Basics that work for me are: Don't postpone, stick to the agenda, & if it is to be an hour meeting then have it start an hour before knockoff time.

You know, every time I come across these meeting related topics… are meetings making you less-effective? How to manage meetings, how to get the most out of meetings, what is the best format for a meeting…. I really do laugh.

I mean seriously, we talk about meetings like they are nouns and quite frankly they have become this buzz-word monster for people to write books about because we let them become nouns in our minds.

Reality check please - 'meeting' is a verb and should be managed… or more exactly - not managed like one.

Do not subscribe to this process of how to get the most out of your meeting… but rather how to get the most out of people that you need to get information from.

People are vastly different and so are the topics we choose to discuss. The format and forum in which we choose to have the discussion should be based on the people we're dealing with and the nature of the information.

Please stop turning the action of meeting with others into a noun because you loose focus on what you should actually be managing.

JavaHead

Meetings; where minutes are taken and hours are wasted.

Short; designate a facilitator and agree, at the beginning, that the facilitator rules. Facilitation includes order (speaker designation), staying on agenda and purpose and keeping time.

On track; meeting agenda (all have expectations of topics and purpose in advance) set 24 hours in advance (even routine status meetings have agendas)

Productive; purpose of meeting stated up front (this includes recognizing authority of the facilitator)

So yes; time limits, agenda and bold facilitation. Keeping stride with these practices will propagate productivity, punctuality and peace.