Renewables Reality Check

Solar power is good far space crafts & satellites and wind power is good only during windy seasons.

The renewable energy sector has to fit new out looks on the concept of our RE sources. Despite the faliure signs we are yet watering the wrong seeds.

"... shouldn't these incidents be viewed as growth indicators of an emerging, strengthening sector?"

How so? These symptoms appear to indicate the truth about exaggerated claims of ROI that can to be expected, exaggerated claims of grid independence, exaggerated claims regarding the rate power can be generated per dollar of investment... These failures may also indicate to the elected that the gravy trains for their pet projects are about to end.

Solar power is not economically viable as on date due to exorbitent cost of solar power. Only if the cost of SPV comes down in future, solar power option will be attractive. Moreover, for industrial and commercial consumers grid connectivity is essential for reliability. Only in remote areas where power transmission lines have not reached, this option is very effective on stand alone basis for resedential requirement. This being clean energy, global carbon foot print will be reduced considerably and use of fossil fuel will be restricted to a safer limit. But every thing depends on ROI of the investing company.

The Global Warmers like to promote this but when they get the electric bill they will be out helping dig for coal or enjoy the change in their Life style.

Change is coming..

This answer is India specific.

Renewable is a broad term which includes Solar, Wind, Biomass, Hydro etc. Presently renewables account for about 20-25 % power generation in India.

About India :

• Installed Capacity of 1.7 Lakh MW and Peak deficit of 10% (as per CERC).
• 60-65% Power generation through Coal and depleting Coal reserves.
• Ever-rising price of Coal pushing power prices up -> reducing Competitiveness.
• Growth rate pegged at 7-8%.
• Increased manufacturing for exports and domestic consumption (in fact this is a differentiating factor between India and China that India can survive global economic turmoil due to high domestic consumption whereas China primarily relies on exports).
• Rising Income and Rising Middle class implies increased power consumption.
• Miscellaneous issues - Rural electrification, Outdated grid, theft of power etc.
• Govt. focus on shifting subsidies from Fossil Fuels to renewable (we have seen the fuel prices shoot up rapidly) and announcement of JNNSM.

I can go on and on.
So the question to my dear friends is if not renewable THEN WHAT?
Regarding Wind - India is already a global leader and among Top 5 Wind Power generators.
Regarding Solar - India has one of the best radiations. PV Solar can be used at all levels - individual households, Industrial / Community level or Utility Scale projects. Govt. is supporting it in the best possible manner and there are a number of projects lined up at Utility scale as well. A decentralized PV Solar Power project can create huge opportunities and can save a lot on Govt. funds - not to forget nearly zero losses - as compared to 30% ATC of the Indian Grid. The only problem with Solar Energy is lack of awareness regarding Energy Scenario in general and about PV Solar.
On one hand we have a problem and on the other we have an opportunity. It would be really silly of us to let go off this opportunity ! Most of the leading Industries are already taking the first step by showing an interest in Solar Energy.
Bankruptcy filings are common in new and emerging Industries and is associated with lack of market research or lack of Govt. support or ambitious targets. I have seen and evaluated Solyndra technology myself and found it interesting but it got tough competition from Chinese market on price. That probably could be a reason for its failure. These incidents do not affect the overall market emotions as there are 100 other players doing exceptionally well.
Final word - when we talk about Renewable it is more to do with a combination of sources and not just one source. Renewables were never meant to replace fossil fuels but were meant to minimize their consumption. Coal, Oil and Gas will still be primary power sources but need to be adequately supplemented with appropriate renewable energy - atleast for the time being. Looking forward (maybe 100 years down the line) one can not rule out the possibility of having a 100% renewable powered Earth.

rrv I could appreciate your passion for solar & RE. But as far as the Indian scene is concerned, we are yet to reach even half the capacity of our demands. Deficit power is made up by diesel generators Or Co generation power plants or fuel based production. The aim is about getting rid of fuel dependencies with alternative energy resources which should meet sustainability, renewability. abundance & the foremost criteria of cost effectiveness by itself without inviting for subsidies. Innovation is competitive, keep going with solar development, perhaps you may hit the bull. Best wishes.

I think this fight will go on about expensiveness of renewables. Wind is not expensive,if installed at right places. Solar is expensive, but continued research can only go on, unless the investments continue to be made. The situation will vastly improve when the difference between Solar electric power and fossil power reduces further. May be another 10 years !! Then present installations will be cheaper being fully depreciated.

Another opportunity is the power shortage period during the day. During this period in many cases DG is in use. This power cost is surely very close to Solar power.

Hey, if it's economically viable, people will spend their own money on it. Let the free market decide.

Why do we give billions in subsidies to coal, nuclear, petroleum. Jobs, corporate income taxes, infrastructure. All excellent reasons. But anyone who thinks that these energy sources are superior to renewables like wind, solar, waves, hydro and others yet discovered because they perceive them to be cheaper (including geopolitical and environmental costs) is an absolute dinosaur.

I have run out of patience with you people sticking your head in the sand., There is no question that energy costs more from wind than from coal. Coal is dirt cheap, actually poisoning our air and water, plundering our natural terrain and resources. I drive a car that burns gas, I run a business that burns diesel fuel, I have friends that work at nuclear plants, oil platforms. I want to invest my tax dollars to become a better nation, a better people, a haven for human beings. This attitude of denial is so endemic of the problems we face as a country right now, which is a total lack of motivation to pay for infrastructure, for war, for education. Screw the future, if I have to pay more today. It's sickening.

Please stop calling solar power "renewable". After all, where does one get another star from when this one runs out?

I wouldn't refer to them as upheavals. Fraud is a more accurate term. As of today an RFK Jr solar firm also seems to have received a billion or so it bailouts. Yes, they should be seen as growth industries and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I look forward to growing our prison population to keep up with the demand.

Reality includes the fact that wind is mostly available at night, when there is plenty of surplus power from the spinning reserve and from hydro. Paying a feed-in tariff for expensive and unneeded wind power at night makes no sense. Wind needs to look for another job and give up the delusional quest to "compete" with conventional power sources.

The "wind power for the grid" business model is fundamentally flawed, so trying to integrate wind with the grid by firming with standby natural gas plants or even cycling coal plants is not a viable solution. But, wind could provide significant motive power for grinding applications or for unit processes where intermittency is not a problem.

It occurs to me that one flaw with solar is that the (to my knowledge) bulk if not all panels need the sun to power them- surely modern science can develop panels that gain power from light- not just sunlight-again is is market forces- the producers can get big bucks because it is emerging technology and mass production has not stepped in- and as for wind, the main problem here is NIMBY. Alternate will not take off until we can persuade the uninterested public to come aboard and pressure the big power and politicians to move their collective butts. coastal regions should also look more at wave and tidal- light and wind do not matter here. I noted in the past many houses in Newfoundland used to gain power from small generators located on local streams which in rugged country have sufficient volume and spead to power these.

Yes, failure is winning, comrade.

Once the energy is used how does this renewing process function?

The problem as I see in these conversations is not which is best, but who talks the loudest- Yes solar and wind currently are expensive, but this is largely due to both free enterprise and Govt who price to make the most money- and till volume is achieved costs will be high- but everyone seems to say either or- heck in truth no one should say get rid of Coal, Fuel, Nuclear and hydro and replace with solar/wind- let the new boys add to the supply and phase out those that do not work over time- we eat appetizer entree and dessert- lets do the same with energy