Introducing a Mass Produced $3000 Car

The 33hp engine is quite OK with me. The price is almost affordable for me too.

33hp, what are you gripeing about? Back in the 50s and 60s in Ohio there was a car, the King Midget being built and sold for less than $3000. Today If you can find one they are worth $6000 to $7000 and they only had 12 to 16 hp. Bring it on with all of its 33 hp. At $3000 you could afford to buy a new one every couple of years. In that event who needs much of a warrenty? We are talking about a daily driver for street use, You can't even buy a golf cart for that price.

If you want one of these, you will need to import it yourself, as there will be very low equipment levels, and probably no airbags, etc, which are now mandatory everywhere else.

2CV, anyone?

2CV as in Citroen?

Exactly, Yuval - trying to re-invent the, em , car?

I'm sure just a little tweak here and there would make it a quite acceptable little motor for those places where roads are poor (they were designed to drive over ploughed fields), and local mechanics can still use a spanner.

There again, Renault are involved, so maybe a '4'.

...There again, Renault are involved, so maybe a '4'...

Right, Renault made their own attempt at this venue.

I wonder if this one too, is front wheel drive. Quattro or Wankel it ain't, that's for sure.

Or is it?

I can see it as a rival for the Smart car, which has done well in the cities, but is too small to be of any use to families. This product will, no doubt, be aimed at the 65% (from UNICEF statistics) earning more than a dollar a day.

This is where the environmental regulations are discouraging the poorest people, by keeping them from accessing products which could be of great benefit to their communities.

Look at the other thread re. the 5.9l engine. Couldn't be more different.

Does anyone remember the old VW? A 38 HP minimalist car?

There could well be a market, but I doubt that they can produce
anything reliable or durable at the price.

"I doubt that they can produce anything reliable or durable at the price."

With the improvements in manufacturing, just stripping out all the clutter - and most of the "safety" features - there would be no problem making a car at that price.

Do we really need 150hp, air con, ABS, air bags, 4wd......?

The VW Beetle used air from the spare tyre to work the washers, and had no fan for ventilation, relying on the movement of the car to clear the window. Even the air cooled engine would probably not pass drive-by noise regulations in Europe.

You could produce a 'VW Beetle` type vehicle, but it would not suit:

It couldn't meet most current clean air reg.s.

It couldn't meet most current 'safety` crash-worthyness reg.s.

And most important, modern drivers are 'spoiled` by the handling/braking
quality of modern vehicles.

Turning a modern driver loose in a vehicle with 40 Yr. old handling characteristics
would be close to murder.

As to the clean air nonsense reg.s we have today: If the requirement was
"Emissions per mile", as would make so much more sense than the "% polutants"
requ.'s we have, yes, then it might well serve.

Too bad, something mechanically sound with the body durability of the 'Trabby`
might last till the oil runs out.

I agree, the point I was badly making was that those of us who "developed" in the 50s-80s were able to use vehicles which were designed to move much more ( and in a more practical manner) than the current rake of 2+2-if-your-lucky motors, which are shrunk to fit the price (eg Smart @ 2.5m).

Emissions of the 2CV were not much, as it utilised "wasted spark" ignition. Fitting fuel injection would reduce this further, but add to the complexity. The last of the 2CVs also had disc brakes & servos.

The crash tests would be the most difficult to meet BUT: are full spec. motors really needed? Should "we" expect these "developing countries" to instantly comply with all our regulations, or just a sub-set of them - allowing progress over a generation or so?

This was to be expected - their labor costs are low, and regulations are less stringent than in North-America where I live. In Canada, for example, a car has to have a speed that can keep up with other cars on the highway, plus meet lots of safety standards, or it does not get approval to go on the roads. Also, cheaper 2-stroke engines often used in those countries aren't legal here, and you need good emissions controls too. If they can meet all of our standards, and give us a car at that price level, then great. It's about time the industry got shaken up a bit.

You may be interested to note that we are developing a $5000 hybrid car, at North-American parts and labor costs! In case you are interested, here is a shortcut to our group in yahoo: ox.ca/3ma

You say you're building a car. Where's the design? Where's the costing? All I see is a flame war in the archives. Well done. Good luck.

Shake Up!?? This is on the heals of the global warming panic. It wasn't the automobile industry that hung all the "Clutter" on our $30,000 SUV. It's all mandated by the govenment looking out for our best interest (choke).

One of these little $3K hummers will probably spew mor CO2 & Hyrocarbons than 50 regulated vehicles. Is this really where we want to go? I don't know, I like the idea of spending only $3k but will I put my wife and kid in it on US freeways...don't think so!

Safety?:

The SUV is not a car, it is a truck.
It is heavier, top heavy and harder to handle properly.

So we tout it's additional mass a safety factor, and put our least confident
drivers in a harder to handle and more dangerous, (to others), vehicle.

As to the required 'safety` equipment, air bags:

Last I heard they'd killed fifty people, (no figures on less serious incidents),
and that was some time back.

I havn't had a traffic accident in forty of driving years and think that
I deserve to have a choice.
Nobody asked me how I'd like driving around with what amounts to a
blasting cap stareing me in the face. - (For those unfamiliar with the beast,
it's something you don't want to be within ten meters of without a damn
good reason.)

O Tempora! O Mores!

Pragmatist- I'm not a fan of government imposed trinkets. But you give the air bag a bad rap! If they killed 50 people, they saved 250,000. Not bad in my book.

Also, your point about bad drivers in big trucks. I say lets get rid of the bad drivers they are dangeous in any vehicle, not the vehicle. (guns don't kill people, people kill people)

It's not the device itself with which I have a problem.
It's the lack of choice. As with any mechanical contivance, it has
both advantages and disadvantages, and I do not want someone
else doing my evaluation for me.

It's the same with motorcycle helmets, (remember that fight?).

Yes the things protect in a crash, and mostly, I choose to wear one,
but they also restrict peripheral vision, (which almost killed me a couple
of times), and in certain enviornments are enough of a distraction,
(through discomfort), to decrease a riders competence.

A person is either a competent responsible adult, or not, and deserves
the freedom to make, and live with, the results of, with his own free choices.

This whole idea of Government standing 'In loco parentis` is distasteful, and
represents a serious threat to personal liberty in my view.

With this I have no argument! Big government is for the sake of govenment and not for anything more noble.

Somehow the figures have been screwed up.

What Tata Motors are offering/developing is a car that will be priced around Rs. 100,000/= in the Indian market. Around US$ 2300/=. That includes about 20 % of taxes, not applicable to exported vehicles.

They are probably the best employers in the country making sure that their workers are well protected , on & off the job. They are also the best paid in the industry.

Their group company also makes the lowest cost world standard steel.

Ford has production facility in India for the main purpose of export oriented quality production meeting world standards & requirements.

One can fairly assume that $3000/= price point would include equipment requirements of North American & European countries.