Are Recent Grads More Real-world Ready?

It's difficult to gauge when kids are being raised in a society that teaches them that they're not responsible for their own actions, competition is bad-(everyone is a winner), everything wrong in their lives is some else's fault, they don't have to work hard, and it's okay to live with their parents into their 30s.

And what is so wrong Kramarat with living with your parents into your 30's? This North American idea of moving out when you turn 19 is new to me. Why the rush?

If I base my assessment on what I've read in these forums, the answer is a resounding NO!

I am often reading questions to which the answer is "go back to your basics and apply what you've learned", and that means recent grads have not been trained how to think any better for themselves than they were a decade ago. It might be worse because a decade ago there wasn't such ready access to forums like this where it's easier to ask for the answer than to figure it out. There is value in putting in a little skull sweat first.

I'm a newbie to this forum so bear with me.

I am a female engineer and am older than the average college undergrad. I always wanted to be an engineer, but didn't get the opportunity to fulfill my dreams until I was in my 40s. Life has a habit of getting in the way.

I will be graduating with my MS in Mfg Eng Tech in a couple of weeks. FWIW, I also have a 2-year drafting degree, a BS in Computational Mathematics, and a BS in Mfg Eng Tech. In other words, I have spent a lot of time in college as a student.

A lot of grad-level courses I took were also taught as undergrad courses, but grad students were expected to contribute at a higher level and also to do more work. In most of my classes there were a few grad students and the rest were undergrads. I have never seen such lack of respect (I can't get myself to use the word disrespect) for the professors and the lack of preparation by most of the undergrads! I don't know how the teaching staff puts up with it. I think they would be happiest if there were no students!

I can tell you that it has gotten worse over time. I have been attending college almost continously since 1978. Early on students seemed pretty serious about getting a good education and getting a job. Recently it seems like that work ethic has been slowly disappearing.

One thing I learned over many years of college is that students who do just enough to make the grade are not the ones you want to work with on student projects or in an actual work environment.

No. I don't think most are ready for real-world work.

Interesting comments! I have not been in a formal college course for some time now, and I am distressed to read that undergrads are being disrespectful to instructors.

I suppose that goes hand-in-hand with the general lack of good manners I see increasing in society in general. IMHO it's one sign of a decaying culture -- and according to Robert Heinlein some years ago it's historically accurate that all societies exhibit this behavior as they are dying. I think this does not bode well for the United States keeping its position as the pre-eminent scociety on the planet. We may be inexhorably headed for second class status.

Still, the questions I see posed in these forums by foreign nationals is equally as distressing. At least once a day I will read a question for a supposedly responsible engineer asking for what is freshman year engineering knowledge. It should be scary to us that we are relegating much of the practice of engineering to less developed societies that simply aren't exhibing the competence I used to see as "business as usual" in the US. Have we become so profit oriented that we have forgotten how profits are reliably generated?

Welcome aboard p14175!

We're harmless. There are a few grumps on here, but don't worry about them. They're kind of like old porch dogs that bark at anything that wanders into the yard.

Giggle, snicker, snicker. Who told you that a fresh graduate with any degree will be able to tackle real-world projects like a seasoned professional. A degree just signifies that one now has a reasonable theoretical basis to be able to grow into being a professional. We don't expect a physician to be able to safely practice medicine without the intermediate post schooling stages of being an intern and resident. Lawyers do not become partners of a firm with a bachelors degree and passing the bar exam. Why do you think project engineering requires no apprenticeship stage?

You are right redfred.

Colleges don't make engineers. They offer courses that industry thinks an engineer needs in order to succeed. It's up to the individual whether they can apply what they learn to real problems. But comparing the education of the an engineer to that of a medical doctor or lawyer is like comparing apples to oranges. Medicine and law in the US are "unionized professions" and require newcomers to complete very thorough apprenticeships (hands-on training) before being allowed to practice their craft. That does not hold true for most branches of engineering though I am sure that there are plenty of engineers that wish there was something similar to discourage the riff raff.

Here's an interesting study that shows indications of that slow downward spiral in education. There are some folks that say an undergraduate college degree is the new high school diploma. They might be on to something.

http://www.thumbtack.com/blog/new-study-shows-undergraduate-degree-worth-no-more-than-a-technical-college-degree

I would have to say no!

We had a new engineer that thought that thought a pipe threader was a lathe and got angry with a mechanic when he asked for a phillips screwdriver and was handed a 10 in 1 with the blade tip showing. He honestly didn't know how to use the tool.

Our last batch of new engineers (our company recruits them and cycles them through different postings to hopefully find a fit) can't seem to accomplish anything without lots and lots of hand holding and other people doing the task for them. Lots of ideas but no follow through unless someone else does it.

One of them was posted to the fabrication floor away from anything to do with engineering or maintenance. One is running the CAD computer and doesn't really talk to anyone without a college degree. One is apparently job searching. And one has actually taken an interest in the maintenance department and helping to redesign some of our equipment. So 25% success rate??

...as both an ex-college instructor and ex-aerospace/defense engineer, my short answer is: No, they're not!

...why? Because theory helps NEW products, while hands-on helps repair EXISTING products, and who wants a college-trained tech when a service-trained tech is less costly and has (typically) far broader experience?

P14175 - welcome! As an exercise in confirmation bias please tell the crowd where you spent so much time in school. I'm sure we will all think it our own country.

The US paradigm used to be college turned out someone with the background suitable to be trained to the specifics of the job. As we are all 'leaner' all the mentoring that used to go with that has largely been cast aside. I used to coach and mentor young engineers, now I barely have time to assign them to tasks. Flip side is I assign pertinent reading, the looks of shock when I tell them I expect them to devote after hours time to self-development are funny. Once I explain life-long learning and personal libraries they come around, a bit.

Flip side, most coming out of school are far more adept at applying computers to the job. I had an intern I assigned a computational task involving geo referenced position data (LAT/LON). Gave him an equation and figured I'd get a spread sheet of data back.

The next day I got a GUI, some Java code, and a tool I still use.

Him we hired.

The best solution is to appoint experienced,even retired,engineers as lecturers.