Future Energy Sources 2.1.2 Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles

The whole theory of moving a problem from one location to another is incorrect if you are producing electricty from Solar,wind,wave or geothermal and not coal -and if the coal plant is usuing scrubbers then even that is offset. So the real question seems to be creation of alternate energy sources for transportation of folks and the useage of something besides gasoline and diesel.

Moving the issues is really the problem: hydrogen can't be stored, so you need to make it on the spot where you can sell it.

Not every gas station location has the space to put windmills, PV cells or has access to waves to supply the energy demand.

As the efficacy is comparable with the combustion engine driven vehicles, the amount of hydrogen needed by cars is in the same range.

Where will the gas stations get the power to make the Hydrogen? from the grid.

How to make electricity as cheap as possible? by dumping lots of CO₂ and other pollutants in the air.

A hydrocarbon fuel cell fed by organic oil is the best system I can imagine. using sunlight to transform CO₂ and H₂O in oil and O₂. The reaction in the cell can only produce CO₂ and H₂O from the Oil and O₂.

The Fuel cell has an advantage: as electric battery driven vehicles only produce little heat, electricity needs to be used to heat the cars interior in winter. The heat energy from the fuel cell can do this. Thermal energy is no issue in cars, so they loose a lot through the glazing, only incoming radiation has been solved to reduce the air-co energy drag from the engine.

HI Gwen !

The process you so eloquently described sets my mind thinking of a gas station that generates your fuel when needed. The process starts when a hybrid car drives up to a station. than the driver requests a fill up of hydrogen or methane or biofuel for his hybrid. using solar and windmills or a microturbine and electrolysis the fuel is created and put in his hybrid tank. the tab is paid or charged and away he goes on his or her way.

this sounds possible at this time. the hydrogen or methane or biofuel is generated on the spot with no storage problems doesn't this sound like the way to go ?

If you can install a quite large windmill at each gas station location it is certainly feasible.

Still I believe that we are far away of driving oil less. Oil has a nice energy desity and requires only little extra wheight to cary it with you.

We should avoid using oil for other purposes than long distance transportation (heating, electricity generation,... can be done with less handy fuels of alternative sources)

If we would only start using oil for transportation as soon as we drive longer than 100km or for heavy loads, we can rely on biofuels. The amount needed would drastically be reduced, and as costs would be high, transportation would rapidly be rationalised.

Money is the only trigger to make something happen in the world.

Shoulden't we start our own CR4?

Gwen!

you are referring to several subjects for a new blog how would you phrase the question to include all the afore mentioned subjects ? I HAVEN'T started a blog yet !

Though i have several subjects i could talk about that has only been just briefly mentioned.

goldrushnugget999

Hello from Moscow,folks!

We need renewable energy sources. Hydrogen is not renewable, moreover we must spend some other kind of energy (nuclear, electric, solar, etc) to produce and compress (or liquify) hydrogen! Much better is wood of Syberian or Amazonian forests from which we can produce methanol. There are lots of them naturally ending its life. Calculation show that using them Russia can satisfy all energy needs today!

The latest sentence is what we need to avoid in all cases: the world being dependent on a single supplier.

I know this is the wet dream of Mr. Putin and Mr. Bush but it is the most unwanted situation at all.

Remember the discussions and problems we actually have with natural gas supplied by Russia.

It would be much better to use the radiation from the sun and the energy in waves and wind by as much suppliers as possible.

Much better is wood of Syberian or Amazonian forests from which we can produce methanol.

This was dealt with in an earlier thread in this series and the calculations showed that you would need and area the size of North America dedicated to nothing but fast growing trees to supply the current energy needs let alone an increase.

We are currently chopping trees down faster than they are being replaced and to add more load to something that is an important part of the carbon cycle would be absolute suicide.

Masu,

Fuel cells are a waste of time. A clean IC engine without a crank is the most cost effective and quickest way to high (60%+) efficiency and high (100 highway, 200 city) fuel economy. A fuel cell cannot recapture braking energy and require either a large capcitor (does not exist now), or a lot of battaries, all of which are environmental disasters and costly.

Masu;If that statement doesn't sound like propaganda straight from an oil company, I've never heard one. Wake up and smell the coffee, Big oil is on the way out. The only question remaining is, are we smart enough to develop a different energy source before we all have to walk wherever we go? The sooner we get started and the more varied the attempts the better. LEAD,FOLLOW OR GET OUT OF THE WAY. I don't think fuel cells and high pressure hydrogen is the way to go either , but I will just have to wait to see if something better comes down the pike. I am working on my own power source now (mentally) and am not willing to publisize it till I make it work. If it fails then nobody can say I told you so. If it works then everybody can say Why didn't I think of that.

Re: Hilltopper

Excellant response-hope someday soon you will be able to make a major world wide contribution and we here at CR4 can say " I remember when ......."

I was not involved in the Battery Vehicle discussion and hope I'm not out of sync.

The most concise and informative article I've come across on this subject can be found here: http://www.ilea.org/

"Carrying the Energy Future" is located under "Articles and Discussions" on the right hand side of the home page. It's 44 pages and I recommend reading the entire document. There is another article about cars which I haven't read yet.

I find it interesting that the finance disclosure link has been disconnected

As has the "Board Members" link. As always "let the reader beware" But the basics seem fairly sound and it does outline the economics even if you disagree.

Yeah you right zippy2

I'm no hydrogen fan, besides the relative inefficency, it has this nasty habit of going bang!

It's nice to know who's promoting which agenda, though I have no problem w/ anyone trying to do a bit o spin, in fact I would be suspicious of info w/out an agenda.

HI !

I Missed the finance blog that was previously disconnected, i hope it can be restarted for us new members ? the info could help us just get started on a project.

I am trying to find an angel investor for my 30 or so inventions.

goldrushnugget999 (goldrush91447@aol.com)

HI ALL !

A new news item has come out about G.M. introducing a new car that's a fuel cell powerd with e85 fuel, a real low emissoions car. After all our conversations on this subject g.m. has started a new electric car. i wonder how long this will last, they collected all the last ones & trashed them so no one could use them. take a look at the current G.M. news releases.

goldrushnugget999

HI ALL !

in the Connecticut post page A11 of Friday July 27 edition the headline states "Detroit plays both sides of fuel fight" the article gives a good description on how the big three try to run the government process on fuel mileage that cars will get in the near future. It is an eye opener on how the process is controlled by U.S. car companies.

HOPE all of you can look up this article.

thanks

goldrushnugget999

Hi Goldrush,

I had a good look at the link you supplied and did a few searches of their archives but couldn't find hide nor hair of the article you referred to, which is a pity because I think it would be both relevant and informative.

I don't suppose you have the name of the journalist that wrote it or something else that could be used to track it down?

HI !

SORRY about that article i later looked it up also and it was not there ether, i checked & my wife had a cleaning day & she threw it out, so i will need to go to the library and get a copy of the article for you, when i get it I'll e-mail you for your address so i can send it to you.

THANKS

GOLDRUSHNUGGET999

Hi Goldrush,

An email or an internal CR4 personal message with the link to the article would be greatly appreciated.

There certainly seems to be something going on because the sort of economy the US car manufacturers are pushing is considerably lower that the figure many companies are achieving elsewhere in the world. I do realize the US gallon is considerably less than the imperial gallon so the results need to be scaled accordingly, but even so the figures are still fairly mediocre at best.

Even my poor old 1983 4WD Subaru will all the bells and whistles running could get better economy to may of the vehicles they are trying to push