Fast Charging for EVs

"EVs are much less practical and more expensive. But newly developed fast chargers are looking to change this."

While it is good to see advances in chargers, chargers will not make the cost of ownership less expensive.

Agree with your comment regarding the cost of ownership, but I believe the fast chargers will make them much a more attractive alternative. Individuals wishing to make a difference that EV's promise in the world might be willing to spend if there is not a large compromise in their current lifestyle... (current lifestyle ).

[edit] Today, Fargo North Dakota USA: Unlead regular self-serve gasoline $3.90USD/US Gallon. Diesel fuel, $4.10USD/US Gallon. Local residential electrical energy rate, $0.072/kWh.

As an aside, I see you have hit the 500 GA mark while I was on sabbatical. Please accept my belated congratulations on this impressive CR4 milestone my friend!

I have seen this argument before, but there is absolutely no evidence that people will pay substantially more for a product because makes an ecological difference.

The proof of my statement is in the numbers. Sales of the Volt and other EVs is far, far lower than proponents had predicted or wished for.

The reason is the bottom line. If it costs substantially more to own and operate than the existing solution it is a no-sale. Also, it is far cheaper to buy a used car (used cars outnumber new cars by orders of magnitude) than buy a new one.

The price of gas is a factor, but when you consider I can buy a very nice used car for $5,000 and a Volt costs me $30,000 one might consider how much gas $25,000 buys (the difference between the two purchases); it is a no brainer. Even if the charge time is minutes, it just doesn't add up nor change the equation.

I understand the desire for a green solution and how people hope that some new technology is going to change the world for the better, but wishing it so does not change the realities. That's coming from someone whole would love to embrace the EV.

As far as the 500 milestone goes, thank you, but I owe every one of those to the wonderful people here. :)

My comment was more an observation than argument. I agree with your expanded comments regarding the validity of that observation.

I have an acquaintance who purchased a locally produced EV (a GEM car) several years ago. He purchased another EV a few years ago, don't know what he bought (trade-in value of the GEM was zero). He wears the inconveniences of the vehicles (original vehicle expense, small size, short range, battery maintenance trouble and expense, charge time, seasonal use...) as if these were badges, an indication of his willingness to bear extra cash expense and personal sacrifices to 'save the planet'. Well, good for him. You and I agree this is not the mindset of a typical American consumer.

I don't think that this is the mindset of most consumers.

I like to try to take the green approach and be environmentally friendly but with motoring i can't. EV's are way too expensive to buy until the proce comes down by at least 50% I will not be buying one. The range is also a total joke. Listening to the radio earlier in the week there was a commentator extoling the virtue of an EV car that had 130 mile range and that would charge in 20 at a fast charge station. Personally on a long journey I don't stop for 20 minutes every 130 miles. In the summer I took my family on a trip of 1000 miles (One way). We stopped for fuel twice (only because I wanted to take advantage of cheaper fuel) otherwise it would have been once. Compare that with the time that an EV would have taken charging every 130 miles!

EV's will be fine in the city if you are not going to take long journeys but in the middle of nowhere i doubt you will even get a fast charging point. Until we see a range that can compare with some of the mid range cars in a car that is able to lug around a family and luggage then EV cars are only for the very eco-friendly and those with so much money they want to brag about having an EV car.

We're making the wrong argument here (that EVs can replace all petroleum fueled vehicles). EV design is still in its infancy and is only really useable by people who mostly drive short trips, can afford a second (conventional) car for long trips, and are willing to pay a premium for being a first adopter. You can eliminate the second criteria if you are willing to rent a car for long trips.

Unfortunately the hype is outpacing practicality today. The EV industry would be better served if people would measure it by what it can do instead of what they hope it can do. Like most technologies, EVs will require several more years (if not decades) to evolve into practical replacements for conventional vehicles in all situations. But they do hold enough promise to not merely dismiss just because they cannot meet all of those expectations today.

Will fast-charging affect battery-life?.

Fast charging certainly can diminish battery life. How much varies by battery chemistry, and by how fast you try to charge it. I don't have my research handy, but I seem to recall that some battery lives can be halved by fast charging - even when limiting the total charge to 80%. With batteries as expensive and fragile as they are now, customers need truthful information before purchasing.

EVs needing to be charged will do to the power grid what smartphones and the "internet of everything" is already doing to the telecommunications network.

OVERLOAD.

Seriously good times for engineers ahead I can see......If the keepers of the wonga are smart that is.

Well all the Technology in the world is not going to solve this one folks.

Its Human in cause. Well a bit of Big Oil in there too......

Simple facts that we all already know.

The average American drives less than 100 miles a day.

The average Soccer mom now owns a 3 ton v8 powered Jeep or GMC or Ford with a 500 mile range. Why? The same reason they all have 4x4.

They will never be driving cross country at a moments notice nor will they ever take that $40,000 grand Cherokee off road. So why do they all think they have to have it?

The majority of gas wasted in this coutry is wasted sitting still in traffic. during "Rush" hour.

What, no mention of REQUIRED electric cars in the new fuel economy standards ought to tell you something eh?

No funding for installing chargers.

We are still enthralled with AC. Straight DC setups recharge much much faster.

The reason electrics are not moving out faster is the lack of buy in by a government ruled by big Oil. No effort is being made to initiate and continue the needed paradigm shift in the thinking of the average American.

Its not the electric car thats not ready. I have recently driven a Tesla S sedan. before you comment on an electric car I suggest you educate yourself and go drive a real one.

And if you are wondering, Volt, Prius, Leaf whatever are not electric cars they are converted or "repurposed" gas cars. A Tesla is built as an electric car and the difference is astounding.

And if that isn't enough, consider this my friends.

Why would Ford build a Brand new "electric" car with only a 70 mile range? Is that the best they can do? Really? REALLY???

(perhaps to ensure electric cars remain upopular)

I was tracking along with you until you got to the part where you said, "The reason electrics are not moving out faster is the lack of buy in by a government ruled by big Oil. No effort is being made to initiate and continue the needed paradigm shift in the thinking of the average American."

That is where I think you lost it.

To pay more for an electric vehicle!

The flaw is that there is no logic for people to spend 3 or 4 times as much for an economy car than they can already get from Hyundai, Nissan, Toyota, of a US made model.

Even when the government subsidizes the cost (like it is doing by subsidizing 25% of the cost of a Volt) it still comes out of the public's pocket, only it actually costs more because there is a bureaucracy in the middle of the transaction that sucks away a portion of those tax dollars just for operational costs. Then again, maybe you think the rich owe you a new electric car.

You wrote, "Its not the electric car thats not ready. I have recently driven a Tesla S sedan."

The car may be ready, but I am not. There is no way that I am going to spend $50,000 - $100,000 on a new car when I already own a car that I am very happy with.

I am sure the Tesla may cost less to run on a per mile basis, but that assumes we negate the huge purchase price and the cost of replacing batteries over the life of the car. Since my car is basically paid for, I can buy a lot of gas for $50,000-$100,000!.

Furthermore, after the end of this year I will have all of our household debts paid off. I am never going to take out another loan nor get a credit card ever again. This country has too much public and private debt. We are drowning in debt!!! It may kill this country, but at least I will have my @ss free of it and I would recommend the same for the rest of us. I just wished I had made this determination a long time ago.

You wrote, "Why would Ford build a Brand new "electric" car with only a 70 mile range? Is that the best they can do? Really? REALLY???"

The reason that Ford, GM, Toyota, Nissan, Porsche, and others are building electric cars is to meet the US CAFE standards that the current administration pushed on us. Those standards demand that the fleet performance meet certain standards and the easiest way for these companies to do that is to add an EV to the line up so that they can still sell the cars that people actually want to buy (despite what the US government thinks you should buy).

It's not the Big Oil companies, its the progressive political movement that is "driving" this.

The 70 mile ranges are simply what the state of the art battery technology can support. 400 mile batteries do not exist and when they do you will find the cost of those batteries adding even more cost to that EV in the showroom.

However, if you want to take out what is equivalent to a home mortgage for a small house to do it, have at it. Just don't come begging for a government bailout when you default because we are broke!

Oh, by the way, just for fun, compare the value of your $50,000 EV after 7 years to investing that same $50,000 into a mutual fund.

By the end of 7 years your car will probably be worth $15,000. The same investment into a modest mutual fund of 10% will return to you $97,435.86 at the end of the same period.

I am beginning to feel like Solar Eagle with all these images.

An automobile is rarely a profitable investment, EV or not. Even the high priced collector cars carry a lot of care and refurbishment costs. Although I believe that your example of a 10% yearly return over 7 years is also overly optimistic (given today's markets) it is still comparing apples to oranges when you compare investing against buying a car. Most people buy a car to use as an appliance, not as an investment.

10% is not that exotic. Check around.

As far as cars go, most people buy a car to get from point A to B with a splash of ego thrown in for good measure.

However, if you are looking to save money, the smart purchase is not an EV.