Speaking of Precision Blog

Speaking of Precision

Speaking of Precision is a knowledge preservation and thought leadership blog covering the precision machining industry, its materials and services. With over 36 years of hands on experience in steelmaking, manufacturing, quality, and management, Miles Free (Milo) Director of Industry Research and Technology at PMPA helps answer "How?" "With what?" and occasionally "Really?"

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What Are The 2 Most Critical Inputs Into Your Quoting Process?

Posted October 30, 2012 9:43 AM by Milo

A colleague asked me this question via email the other day.

Actually, he asked: "Simple question for you this morning- what do you consider to be the most important piece of the puzzle when quoting a precision machined component?"

What would your answer be?

Cue Jeopardy theme song here…

I responded that there were two equally crucial pieces of the quoting puzzle:

  • Confidence in my process cost data;
  • Confidence in my process capability data.

With inadequate process cost data, you die a slow death with every part produced.

With inadequate process capability data, you can lose a 'whole lot of money' if the capability isn't there and you are forced to abandon the 'as quoted' process path.

My colleague agreed:

"Exactly! Cycle time (for each of the processes) and how much you need to charge per hour. Then you can take those numbers and put them into cells and have one operator running two or three machines and include automation and do the 5S and Lean and Kanban and paint lines on the floor and all the other things we do. But the bottom line is you better pay attention to your process!!!"

His comments about cells, automation and painting lines give us insight into the fact that his world of precision machining is a world of low mix and high volume. But even in a lower volume and higher mix shop,making a mistake on either cost to process or capability of process on a quote is a great way to make a small fortune out of a much larger one…

What do you think? Are process cost and process capability the two most important aspects of your quoting process?

Jeopardy photo

Editor's Note: CR4 would like to thank Milo for sharing this blog entry, which originally appeared here.

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#1

Re: What Are The 2 Most Critical Inputs Into Your Quoting Process?

10/31/2012 1:08 AM

Did you mean coat?

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Re: What Are The 2 Most Critical Inputs Into Your Quoting Process?

10/31/2012 10:58 AM

More like cost of material.

Time constraints.

A lot of vendors have a set hourly rate for labor and that is the cost negotiator. How much can you get them to come down on labor. Much of that is attributed to overhead and if you have a lot of overhead, no body wants to pay that.

So you work the price down to where it comes close to what you want to pay. Now you're subjected to being bumped and risk falling behind on lead times to customers that are willing to pay the premiums.

It boils down to this:

Material, Labor, Time.

I have an advantage. Almost everything I farm sub-contract out, we can also make in house. So I have a reference to how much things cost to make.

Often times a new vendor or someone you haven't used in awhile will under quote a job to get you back, then if you don't watch it, they try to recoup those costs by bidding really high on some parts.

Sometimes they will put in a really low price on the first few items on a list and hope you don't check all the way through because the last few items are priced really high.

And a real killer to loosing business is not meeting lead times. My company for instance, is notorious for getting me the information I need to sub-contract parts late as it is, so I have to put pressure on my vendors in getting me short lead times. They all know my circumstances and try to work with me, but I have some that make promises they can't keep. If you can't get it to me on time, be honest with me, it is what it is. one time I had a vendor tell me, after checking on the project day after day and them telling me everything looks good and on track, the day before delivery they call and tell me they didn't order enough material, and there was still welding and powder coating they were committed to doing as well. We had to pull the job back and do it ourselves and we didn't use them for several months. We put a lot of volume of work through them and when we stop, they feel it.

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Re: What Are The 2 Most Critical Inputs Into Your Quoting Process?

10/31/2012 11:33 AM

I agree with what you boiled it down to of:

Material, Labor and Time.

I believe that would be covered under the process cost data.

But as a small business owner, we used that criteria. But I like to add, as a business owner, I have always pushed the limits of our process capability to basically get the business to the next competitive level. And to do this, it seems the bigger the push the larger the risk, and the risk is exponential. That is where one has to be careful not to exceed your resources.

As far as subcontracting, I was a control freak to put it mildly, because I was always pushing. It took me some time to figure that out that it can work for you, and that definitely reduces your risks, what does increase is ownership of control. And by control is finding a contractor that does what he says he's going to do. Which you touch off of with delivery time.

Now your into a little project management with the three things and that is:

  • Quality
  • Budget
  • Schedule

Now Pick 2.

And the article also touches off it, and that you have to have your finger on the pulse.

Good article!

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Re: What Are The 2 Most Critical Inputs Into Your Quoting Process?

10/31/2012 11:59 AM

Most of the time people are leaning towards budget and schedule. When they do that quality starts to suffer.

We are turning more over to sub-contracting than doing things in house because everything is so rush, rush that we make a lot of mistakes and incur a great deal in rework costs, so to off-set the rework costs, if the vendor makes the part incorrectly, we can reject the part and they absorb the rework cost. So there is still incentive in doing it right the first time.

The vendors we use are much better at reducing errors because they have laser or waterjet cutters and we don't, their press breaks are CNC and ours is now but it didn't use to be. They pay their employees better than we pay ours, so the professionalism goes up. Wow, so many variables.

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Re: What Are The 2 Most Critical Inputs Into Your Quoting Process?

10/31/2012 12:02 PM

Make or buy is a great discussion on it's own, And one I will be writing about shortly. There are a lot of variables.

Milo

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Re: What Are The 2 Most Critical Inputs Into Your Quoting Process?

10/31/2012 12:10 PM

Make or buy,

There are a few analyses that one has to run.

Not Surprisingly, alot is about project management, of which I have seen this career becoming in high demand.

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Re: What Are The 2 Most Critical Inputs Into Your Quoting Process?

10/31/2012 12:06 PM

In project management, the rule of thumb when there is a change order, You pick 2 of the three.

i.e.

You pick

  • Pick: Cost and schedule
  • your quality suffers

or

  • Pick: Schedule and quality
  • your costs balloon

Or

  • pick: cost and quality
  • Your schedule suffers

And if its poorly managed, everything suffers.

I had some clients that were time and materials, you don't see that much. But I do have to give an estimate, and sometimes "Not to Exceed".

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