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Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

Posted May 15, 2013 12:00 AM by larhere
Pathfinder Tags: carbon dioxide CO2 Environment

Scientists at NOAA announced last Friday that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide reached the psychologically important level of 400 parts per million (ppm) at the Mauna Loa Observatory, Hawaii.

For the first time in human history, the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has reached 400 parts per million (ppm). This represents a 40% increase in CO2 levels in the last 200 years.

But wait......after further scrutiny by NOAA scientists and thousands of "interested parties", NOAA revised the reading of May 9 to 399.89 ppm. The LA Times just broke the news, "Carbon dioxide in atmosphere did not break 400 ppm at Hawaii site". This ought to give us food for debate for at least a couple of weeks!

CR4 would like to thank Larry Butz of GEA Consulting, for contributing this blog entry.

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#1

Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/15/2013 1:19 AM

What is so different for 400 and 399 something? I see that it cycles over the year in that one spot anyway. Where is the trend going?

What I am really worried about is the vicinity of the vulcan there. Are they sure they are not close to predicting a next outbreak of same rather than a global increase of CO2?

Have fun!

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#2

Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/15/2013 2:23 AM
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#4
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/15/2013 6:57 AM

OMG. So, all this CO2 is now causing volcanos to erupt where it is millions of degrees just below the surface of the earth.

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#11
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/16/2013 8:47 AM

I think the volcano is causing the CO2 not the CO2 causing the volcano.

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#25
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/19/2013 5:52 AM

Let the scientist sort this out, will ya!

What you think has never been in the news or has it?

AH has got it right. The next ice age is coming as well. An my name is Santa Claus!

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#10
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/16/2013 8:42 AM

That was my thought exactly - they're measuring it near a volcano. Funny, the TV news never mentions that.

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#16
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/16/2013 2:35 PM

Aside from the fact that the active volcano is on the leeward side of the island within a thousand feet of sea level and the summits of Mona Kea and Mona Loa are up around 14,000 feet, well it's probably not much influence, but I don't think you believed it was anyways.

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#12
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/16/2013 8:51 AM

Is the CO2 concentration in anyway related to the increased volcanic activity over the past decade in close proximity to the observatory reporting the increased CO2 concentrations?

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#29
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/20/2013 10:38 PM

I bet you can make a graph to prove it! Its been done before!

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#3

Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/15/2013 3:50 AM

Come back, Eyjafjallajökull! All is forgiven!

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#5

Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/15/2013 10:28 AM

... Even though the US emission of CO2 has been decreasing: http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-us-cut-its-carbon-emissions-in-2011--but-got-swamped-by-china/2012/05/25/gJQAiZEBqU_blog.html

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#6
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/15/2013 12:07 PM

The third world more than makes up for anything we cut back on.

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#7
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/15/2013 12:14 PM

The concept and allocation of blame is not of great value here, especially when used with an undefined pronoun.

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#26
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/19/2013 12:12 PM

Amen brother...This is petroleum coke, a waste product from refining Canadian oil sands...too nasty to be used as fuel in the US, it's awaiting shipment to China and Mexico where it's use is not restricted....

read article....

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#28
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/19/2013 3:06 PM

"This is petroleum coke, a waste product from refining Canadian oil sands...too nasty to be used as fuel in the US, it's awaiting shipment to China and Mexico where it's use is not restricted...."

I hope you realize that petcoke is also a byproduct of most oil refineries not just Canadian oil sands. We will produce more and more coke as the light crude oils are used up and demand for fuels increase. And the demand is growing not shrinking. Coke is also used as a fuel in hydrogen production to be reused in fuels that are resold for use in most western countries. The middle east advocates using coke for hydrogen production to offset high costs. And I am sure China will do the same. Like the burning of coal, we need to find better alternatives or improve technologies for burning.

I am not an oil man but have been involved in some drilling projects.The pictures and stories, like the NY Times, play on the naivete of readers as a recruitment for often misguided environmental movements and anthropogenic green house gas rhetoric. The refinery in Detroit using California crude would produce as much coke. The refineries in Texas produce somewhere around 55.000 Tons of coke a day. We will continue to see coke production increase with time as we use more and more carbon enriched oils not just Alberta oil. Perhaps we could drive less and shiver in winter instead. Or swelter in summer. Just get the world on the same page. It is human demand that drives the market. The article is timed to raise conflict with the Alberta oil sands and the attempt to build Keystone pipe line. Many environmentalists have drawn a line in the sand and are using every method to stop it as it will stop or slow oil sand production. Then oil will only come from a different source but still be as carbon enriched. Chances are great that Alberta will sell its oil to Asia. Carbon can be used for other development than fuels.

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#8

Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/15/2013 7:55 PM

I shink it's all just pshychological anywaysh.... especially the shpelling.

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#9

Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/16/2013 7:55 AM

Coming soon ...... another SYFY Disaster Movie

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#13

Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/16/2013 10:59 AM

Well, it appears we have more deniers than believers. As a group of engineers and scientists how should we react to what seem to be professionally run studies such as this summary from today's Plant Ark.

Experts in Australia, the United States, Britain and Canada studied 4,000 summaries of peer-reviewed papers in journals giving a view about climate change since the early 1990s and found that 97 percent said it was mainly caused by humans.

They also asked authors for their views and found a 97 percent conviction from replies covering 2,000 papers. The data will be released at (www.skepticalscience.com).

Larry

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#14
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/16/2013 11:15 AM

What significance is one dead tree in Australia? We've had this climate change debate several times here. If interested you may be able to search CR4 and get the info. All is not as it seems.

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#17
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/16/2013 2:48 PM

Deniers has such a harsh connotation.

I believe we are better known as skeptics who won't swallow the whole thing, hook, line, and sinker. This is not black and white as many would want you to believe. First off, ANYONE who thinks they have a good handle on a complex system with many thousands of degrees of freedom is only fooling themselves. At best, they use a highly truncated model and do their darnedest to find some sort of correlation that supports their hypothesis. And that includes excluding those data points that don't support their position.

Furthermore, once an issue becomes politicized, a peer reviewed publication becomes meaningless due to the pressures exerted. One only needs to look at the scorn and ridicule the intelligentsia spew onto anyone who dares question their supposedly incontrovertible positions on the issue.

Is the climate changing? Yep. It has been for a very long time. How much is actually due to human involvement is where the skeptics are going to ask for better proof. What we don't need to do is rush headlong into potentially damaging 'solutions' for what might not be a problem at all. (Or one we have any control over.) We have time to continue our research, collect more data, have reasoned discussions with all sides.

Cheers !

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#18
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/16/2013 3:08 PM

Would you mind pointing out exactly which posts belong to the deniers please?

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#19
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/16/2013 6:01 PM

See #17 above.

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#20
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/17/2013 4:32 PM

I am rather sceptical of that post being any form of denial.

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#21
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/17/2013 7:21 PM

I think he meant us. If Iarhere was here we could ask him.

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#22
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/17/2013 11:40 PM

It doesn't really matter what anyone thinks, we are not going to stop using fossil fuels anytime soon, or stop eating steak....Future fuel use is dictated by economics not scientific opinion....Clean carbon neutral or carbon negative technologies are being developed at a rapid pace(relatively speaking) but change on such a vast scale moves at it's own pace...Arguing about who thinks what is a moot point, merely dinner conversation....The whole system may be self balancing anyway, who knows?

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#15

Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/16/2013 12:57 PM

Deforestation & urbanization lead to destruction of CO2 converters to useful chlorophyll substances, the basis of our organic primary food system.

Fossil fuel addictions keep continuing without any break through alternate energy solutions.

One best way to tackle this is to substitute fuel energy with green electricity & the bottle neck is electricity generation without fuels.

We at Clean Planet Technology Initiatives for Sustainable Development support

* Conversion of Thermal / Nuclear power plants to Hydro prime movers without losing Generator.

* Convert existing hydro [ Dam / Barrage / Run of river / Pumped Storage ] power plants to continuous mode by using our gravity operated Ram Pumps which instantly recycle water after power generation back to source.

*The Dam less hydro power technology simplifies traditional Dam based hydro power projects drastically reduce civil costs confining it to a hydraulic circuit viz: Water source & fore bay - Conduction line to Ram Pumps - Lift to the required over head Tank - release water from over head tank via pen stock to hydro turbine for power generation - water falls back to fore bay / source.

* Any water source can be used for hydro power generation without Dam / Barrage : Running rivers, Canals,lakes,existing Dams / Barrages,Large scale water points like Mass water supply storage points, STP's & ETP's or CETP's [ Central Effluent Treatment Plants by artificial high head formation above water source.

* In case of existing hydro power plants, the Ram unit will be paced next to turbine draft tube to divert water back to source without losing to tail race.

The technology is also applicable to Mass water transport [ without electricity / fuel power] from source to remote lands, Flood water control & diversion to remote high altitude lands, Rain water harvesting on open seas & dispatch to coastal storage & further to end use remote lands, Diversion of rivers to high altitude lands.

We are open for technology support on a trans boundary basis.

For the information of esteemed members in CR4, I would like to convey that, we don't talk about perpetual machines & the basis of the technology is conversion of gravity energy to hydraulic energy to do useful work & in this case it is water lifting.

Esteemed professional members in Hydro / Thermal / Nuclear & Water related service may convey this good news to your contacts.

That is the bets idea ,one as an aspirant for sustainable development can do to fellow humanity.

More details can be found at my Linked in profile: " Subramaniam Udhayamarthandan "

That's the way Carbon Foot prints can be minimized & the CO2 PPM levels can be brought down by low cost green electricity, since all energy systems will be electrified- Boilers, Heat utilities, Transport systems [ Road & rails including marine vessels, excepting aviation sector ]

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#23
In reply to #15

Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/18/2013 7:12 PM

Please explain how the ram pump can eliminate the tail race? I thought that although ram pumps can pump water using water, the reject rate is rather high.

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#24
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/18/2013 11:25 PM

These Ram Pumps are high efficient to the range of > 90 % & are not based on traditional Water Hammer principle.

It calls for no direct electricity / fuel power & works on mere gravitational forces in combination with fluid behaviour. It is rather a gravity energy extraction device, converting it to hydraulic pressure energy.

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#27
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Re: Carbon Dioxide Passes 400ppm! Or Not?

05/19/2013 2:16 PM

Not to mention that any slowing of the water exiting the turbines is going to reduce the pressure drop across the turbine and hence reduce its output. There is perhaps a very small amount of energy (by comparison) that can be extracted from the output (tail race). TANSTAAFL still holds true here like everywhere else. It would be physically impossible to recycle all the water back up over the dam. Period.

Rather than using ram pumps to pump (some very small percentage of) the water back up over the dam, if anything you could funnel the tail race water through some low head turbines typical of many 'low' dams in the Northeast U.S. but the energy extracted would look laughable in comparison to the primary turbines.

I rather suspect that turbine engineers have optimized their designs to extract the maximum energy from a given set of conditions (flow, pressure, etc.) that amateurs are not going to get any significant improvement.

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