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Toyota Joins Daimler In Opposing "Dangerous" New Refrigerant

Posted August 28, 2013 8:00 AM by larhere

Daimler has already announced they will be going back to R-134a for new auto air conditioners rather than the planned (and agreed upon) change to HFO-1234yf due to safety risks. Toyota has now joined the ranks of companies refusing to convert to 1234yf for safety reasons. German manufacturers Volkswagen and BMW have also previously announced rejection of HFO-1234yf for new autos much to the dismay of DuPont and Honeywell, developers of this low GWP refrigerant for autos.

R134a has been banned from new vehicles built in the EU since the start of the year due to its high Global Warming Potential, GWP.

Toyota has ceased producing any vehicles for Europe with R1234yf. Toyota can refill these models with the previously used R134a, because the relevant approvals to use the old refrigerant in those models are still valid.
Daimler tests found the refrigerant combined with the air-conditioning compressor oil spraying across the engine block, produced a hot composition of toxic gas, easily resulting in flames. The gas mixture included hydrogen fluoride, a corrosive compound known to cause blindness and skin deformity when humans are exposed. The explosion also resulted in hydrofluoric acid, a deadly substance that is so corrosive that exposure to a a body part the size of one's palm can result in death.

(Read more)
The introduction of new refrigerants continues to be an increasingly hot issue.
Editor's Note: CR4 would like to thank Larry Butz of GEA Consulting for contributing this blog entry, which originally appeared at the GEA Consulting HVAC Blog.

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Guru

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#1

Re: Totota Joins Daimler In Opposing " Dangerous" New Refigerant

08/28/2013 10:53 AM

"Daimler tests found the refrigerant combined with the air-conditioning compressor oil spraying across the engine block, produced a hot composition of toxic gas, easily resulting in flames. "

They need to do more testing. Every refrigerant will do that when the system oil is sprayed fine enough while hot.

Believe me I know from scrapping out old vehicles and AC systems. R-12, R-22, 134a, R401, and the odd envirosafe rated ones too.

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#2

Re: Totota Joins Daimler In Opposing " Dangerous" New Refigerant

08/28/2013 12:30 PM

I agree this stuff is too dangerous....flammable, heavier than air? It's like using propane as a refrigerant, only odorless....agreed it does drop the GWP dramatically, but what other unintended consequences wait in the wings? What about introducing it in a sector that can be more closely controlled and monitored, while more testing is done?

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#3

Re: Totota Joins Daimler In Opposing " Dangerous" New Refigerant

08/28/2013 4:53 PM

One question that I've yet to find an answer for whats the products life in use.

R-134a has a shelf life of 14 years. Which is just about as long as it takes to break down in the atmosphere. 14 years in an automotive AC system is pretty good with respect to the life of some of the other components.

The 1234yf says it breaks down in 11 days in the atmosphere. So will it break down in use and need to be changed regularly? Or is it one of these deals feed it to the public let them worry about it in the future. Or is it they just don't know how long it will last in use.

Is it a product that is being strong armed to be used after it's creation? Which to me looks like a product created. Just to give auto makers that can't make the newer fuel efficiency some other outlet with other credits. Another one of governments sleight of hands to make it look like they are doing some thing for the environment.

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Re: Totota Joins Daimler In Opposing " Dangerous" New Refigerant

08/28/2013 8:12 PM

Add to that a loss in efficiency and $100 a lb price tag, together with all special equipment because of flammability....and to get your A/C serviced will be outrageously expensive....You could go broke with a hard to find leak....

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#5

Re: Toyota Joins Daimler In Opposing "Dangerous" New Refigerant

08/29/2013 9:57 PM

Does 1234yf = 1234 you're f****d?

Does "refigerant" in the title mean that we have to eat another cookie?

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#6
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Re: Toyota Joins Daimler In Opposing "Dangerous" New Refigerant

08/30/2013 8:14 AM

'Refigerant' probably means 'a problem that deserves to be evaluated again'.

...

....at least that's how I figure it.

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