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Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

Posted September 04, 2013 1:10 PM by HUSH

In the past few years, the marketplace for plug-in electric vehicles has changed almost as rapidly as the technology behind the vehicles. There is a soft-target of 1 million plug-in (not hybrid) electric vehicles on American roads by 2015, and the European Union has a target of 9 million vehicles by 2020, but both goals seem unlikely to be reached. In the past 5 years, 115,000 PEVs have been purchased in the U.S., while in there are currently about 100,000 PEVs on the roads in the E.U.

While 1 million PEVs in the U.S. by 2015 seems farcical at this point, the U.S. still accounted for 26% of PEV sales worldwide in 2012, only behind Japan at 28%. It's an especially poignant statistic when Americans have to traverse the world's third-largest country with the world's largest road network size, a staggering 4.03 million miles, and are being asked to do so in vehicles with ranges typically less than 100 miles. When it comes time to charge the vehicle, which can take several hours, drivers must find one of only 5,700 charging stations around the U.S. This means the average distance between charging stations (~700 miles) is larger than the average range of a PEV. As such, PEVs are mostly consigned to travel where the infrastructure to support them is available, and these are typically regions saturated with travel alternatives already.

Yet, there is at least a test bed for PEV integration which Asian and European manufacturers are observing in hopes of learning how they can improve the design of PEVs. Norway, the smallis Nordic country of 5 million, has the highest degree of PEV market penetration, with more than 2.25 percent of registered vehicles being of the plug-in type. About 13,500 PEVs are on the road in Norway with the support of 4,200 charging stations. While some PEVs in Norway are comical-looking (see the PEV Buddy, at left), they are popular for their government rebates, exemptions from road taxes, tolls and parking fees, and their ability to use bus and express lanes despite the degree of occupancy. While Norway's 120,000 miles of roadway pales in comparison, some manufacturers feel that the number of PEV daily-drivers in Norway may be more indicative of the vehicle's performance over the long term. With extensive feedback and helpful legislation, automakers have refined their electric offerings and PEV popularity is soaring in Oslo.

Perhaps this is one of the major reasons that the 'big three' American auto manufacturers--Ford, GM and Chrysler--have let Tesla Motors take the early lead in American-made PEVs. With no 'Norway' of their own to heavily introduce electric vehicles, it's hard for American automakers to understand how to evaluate electric vehicles. An extensive and expensive collection of batteries would be needed to power a PEV anywhere in America, and Tesla is the only American manufacturer to offer an electric vehicle with a range of more than 100 miles. Their battery packs have a minimum range of 200 miles, and in some cases reach 300 miles. By comparison, the Chevy Volt PEV, which has sold more models than the Tesla S, has an electric range of 21 miles and 149 hp. Ford's Focus Electric has a range of 76 miles with 130 hp and a top speed of 85 mph. Chrysler has introduced the Fiat 500electric, but has yet to create an original electric vehicle, let alone a model which could compete with Tesla.

Car consumers have also come to expect a worthwhile power train warranty on every new car. This is troublesome for a battery which must be reliable in a dynamic and harsh setting. Heck, obtaining a good warranty on a battery for a laptop can be difficult, so insuring a battery for a car built for American roads is going to be expensive. It's why Tesla can sell their Model S for an average of $70,000; they offer a 10 year / 120,000 mile warranty on the battery and motors. Tesla is essentially hoping that these batteries last long enough for the company to turn a significant profit, and it seems like they're going to;Tesla has been making money since May after paying back loans.

Unfortunately there isn't much incentive to be the first company to offer an interesting, competitive, and comprehensive all-electric vehicle. Ford, GM and Chrysler have let Tesla take the pole position in the PEV sector mainly because they're risk averse, and instead have supplied weak PEV offerings to act busy. Their thinking: If someone's going to lose money, let it be Tesla. Once Tesla proves they can supply a sustainable product line, Ford, GM and Chrysler will join the market with thoughtful plug-in electric vehicles. Until then, the race is Tesla's to lose.

Resources

Forbes - Tesla shares get charge...

Plug-In Cars - Tesla Roadster Battery Life...

Wikipedia - Plug-in electric vehicles in Norway;

List of modern [PEVs]

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#1

Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/04/2013 1:36 PM

My guess is that hope is the strategy here.

The same people that predict hurricanes must now be in the EV prediction business.

Currently, there are 254,212,610 registered cars in the US. The soft target (I translate that to the wishful target) is 1,000,000 EVs in two more years. That's still less than 0.5% of all registered vehicles - today.

I would not call that a flood, but closer to that trickle that other poster has in his refrigerator.

Tesla is succeeding because they are a niche market seller. There is little reason for the Big Three to bother dipping their fishing rods into that tiny pond when they already command the oceans.

That tide will only turn when EVs can match or exceed the current range, performance, and purchase price of conventional cars. Not being one that has a prescription of Prozac, all I can say is that turn in the road is far over the horizon.

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#4
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/04/2013 2:17 PM

Well I think we should include hybrid vehicles in the count....Without the infrastructure in place the floodgates should be called tricklegates....

Since their inception in 1999, a total of 2,592,221 hybrids have been sold in the country through December 2012.[1][2][5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_electric_vehicles_in_the_United_States

Plug-in electric .....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicle

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#2

Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/04/2013 1:48 PM

Electric Tzero vs Ferrari 355 race.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8mDGnA2KAU

Inizio RTX 200 mile range vs Tesla race....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5RCyCz8Sjc

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#3
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/04/2013 2:07 PM

Toyota breaks Nurburgring record lap, in electric race car....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwMvd5LNo-Q

Toyota RAV4 powered by Tesla.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXibYr-2i10

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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/04/2013 8:12 PM
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/04/2013 8:22 PM
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#7

Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/04/2013 8:58 PM

It will be interesting when charging will be faster and when there are charging stations everywhere.

Can't i charge my car with my car phone charger?

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#8
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/04/2013 11:14 PM

Maybe we can charge it while you're driving,,, with microwaves?!

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#9
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/04/2013 11:21 PM

Early experiments have proven difficult.....

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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/04/2013 11:36 PM
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#12
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/05/2013 10:05 AM

Wow! You are busy today! You must be on steroids.

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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/05/2013 12:52 PM
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#15
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/05/2013 1:20 PM

or caffeine!

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#11

Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/05/2013 4:26 AM

Or use the overhead tram rails to charge?

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#13

Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/05/2013 10:39 AM

Electric vehicles seem to have boggled everyone- The pollution produced by the power plant and the cost of the electricity to charge the battery far exceeds that used for normal fuel vehicles-when consumable fuel can be produced from grass cuttings, leaves etc which are renewable and in most cases considered a disposable waste, why use corn or other useful food products-

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#16

Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/05/2013 3:58 PM

A few things not mentioned.

Tesla stock is selling for 167 a share. a 51% increase over initial offer.

Over 4700 type s tesla were sold in California this year alone.

Musk is working with the South Koreans who have just opened the first electric road. it has coils embedded in it that actually provide enough electricity to run a car and charge it at the same time.

Musk is installing super chargers all over America at his own expense and they are free to use.

The reason the big three aren't doing electric is the huge subsidies they recieve from oil companies. Which is also why electric cars are more advanced in other countries where big oil does not have influence.

Just follow the money to see why we are not moving forward with electrics.

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#17
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/05/2013 4:18 PM

OOPs forgot to mention the Type S is the safest car built anywhere. It exceeded all testing parameters and it broke the crush test machine. Check it out. Sorry could find the video. Its on the web somewhere. LOL

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#18
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/05/2013 5:05 PM

You wrote, "The reason the big three aren't doing electric is the huge subsidies they recieve from oil companies. Which is also why electric cars are more advanced in other countries where big oil does not have influence."

No, the reason the Big Three are not selling electric cars is because virtually no one wants them.

  • They cost too much
  • The have limited range
  • And they are an untested technology compared to standard vehicles with a mature technology

All this despite the real subsidies granted by the Federal government. No body wants them.

Now, you claim the oil companies are paying the Big Three. So, where is the proof of that? I can't find it anywhere, certainly not from a reputable source.

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#19
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/05/2013 8:43 PM

I agree, In Japan there is a bigger market for electric (or hybrid) cars because people don't travel huge distances, the range is less of an issue than in other countries.

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#20
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/05/2013 10:18 PM

Unfortunately, electricity is a problem.

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#21
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/06/2013 11:20 AM

Oh AH, you know this as well as I do. The money would not be obvious because that would be illegal. DUH!

The money is in the form of campaign contributions and lobbying capital. How else do you explain those ridiculous CAFE numbers or the way the manufacturers can fudge the whole thing and still get away with selling gas guzzlers? Who ultimately benefits from this? I know you are smart enough to figure this out on your own so I am guessing you are just busting my balls for the sake of a good discussion.

Its called "soft money".

Now, for your edification, your argument about range holds no water. The model T barely went 100 miles and gas was not readily available yet it became the first "world car." Wildly popular. Sold millions even in countries where there were no gas stations initially.

"Range anxiety" is an invention of the automotive press.

Next falacy, electric cars are "economy cars". No, they are regular cars that run on electricity. They are not Corollas.

You would not expect to buy a Cadillac for 20,000 why would you expect to buy a equally equipped electric car for that? Not a very realistic view.

Next, i believe electric cars were around before gas powered cars so its actually the more mature technology. The big problem is funded research. The battery technology has lagged behind for decades because gas was cheap and we were blissfully unaware of the damage burning fossil fuels does to the environment. Since R&D does not generate profits, no one wants to put out the research dollars. This is the reason behind DARPA grants. The simple acknowledgement that cutting edge research is not profitable and when you have designed your entire culture around making a profit, research is never well funded because share holders want dividends not breakthroughs.

BTW, Have you seen the swap stations? drive in, drop dead battery, install fully charged battery. down the road in 5 minutes.

No AH, the resistance to the electric car is all trumped up by the oil companies who are really afraid they will loose their influence, power, and control.

The simple fact that the electric car is far better for our planet and the environment makes its ultimate adoption inevitable as California is already proving.

Personally I do not doubt the GAO records of contributions. Now super pacs, there is hidden money my friend.

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#22
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/06/2013 1:47 PM

I see these arguments all the time.

1. It's an obvious conspiracy, but we can't prove it.
2. Range anxiety is not founded.
3. Electric cars are economical.

All three are false.

The Model T would not sell very well today, so why bring it up? It is called a Straw Man argument.

You wrote, "Next, i believe electric cars were around before gas powered cars so its actually the more mature technology."

While it is true that electric cars predate the combustion engine, the combustion engine has a lot more development time applied to it than EV technology. Mature means that the bugs are worked out and it is a reliable system.

We are still trying to come up with a robust battery system for the EV that has compatible range and cost. We are not there yet, so the technology is actually immature.

You wrote, "Since R&D does not generate profits, no one wants to put out the research dollars."

That is completely false. If it were true there would be no R&D anywhere or it would only be a government sponsored thing. Excluding the service industry, every design and manufacturing must invest in R&D or they will go extinct.

However, the reason that less engineering R&D is devoted to EVs is simply because the investment does not return as much profit (actually, negative profits) as other things. It would be stupid for a company to look at multiple candidates for development and choose the least profitable or negatively profitable one just because it makes you feel good.

And that strikes to the heart of the debate. EVs simply do not generate competitive profits at the price point people are willing to pay for a car. Consumers are not that stupid. Well, most aren't.

However, I don't believe I am going to convince you otherwise because your mind is made up. That's okay with me, we will just have to agree to disagree, I guess.

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#23
In reply to #22

Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/07/2013 5:17 AM

Possibly you may have read the enclosed article by Motley Fool on the Tesla. I don't know what to think. The comments and opinions expressed from readers vary from wildly enthusiastic to complete scorn. Elon Musk doesn't seem to be a man who wander into this field without an utter conviction that he will succeed.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/08/31/3-reasons-why-tesla-is-an-industry-game-changer.aspx

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#24
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/07/2013 8:46 AM

I have driven the Tesla sports car, but not the S. I loved the sports car. It's awesome.

From what I have seen of the S it is even more awesome, but these are specialty cars that are out of reach for the average person (and me) and there is nothing wrong with that.

Musk has hit the nail on the head because he is filling a niche market and not trying to be all things to all people.

The issue is that some people incorrectly believe that EVs are the Volkswagen Bugs of the 21st Century. While they may be cool they simply are too expensive and the technology has a long, long way to go before they approach parity with existing cars.

It's not some evil plot by corporations that is creating this reality, it is simply the state of the art and market.

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#25
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/07/2013 12:47 PM

Maybe he's going for one niche at a time....Rav4 made by Toyota powered by Tesla....

http://jalopnik.com/5637006/toyota-revives-the-electric-car-with-new-rav4-ev

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#26
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/07/2013 1:39 PM

Target price?

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#27
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/08/2013 11:43 AM

Well it sells for around $50k us, but you can lease it for $300. a month....If you spend that much or more in gasoline already, it could be a bargain...(only being sold in Calif)

http://www.toyota.com/rav4ev/#!/Welcome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV

As a footnote "General Motors announced last week that it will drop the base price of the 2014 edition of the Chevy Volt by $5,000, from $39,995 to $34,495."

http://green.ebay.com/green-driving/articles/General-Motors-Cuts-5-000-From-Base-Price-of-Chevy-Volt/11837#content-top

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#28
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/08/2013 12:09 PM

Yeah right. How about $10K for a Kia and $40K worth of gas?

Let's see, average combined mileage 30 mpg and $5 per gallon gets us 8,000 gallons of gas or 240,000 miles.

By a used Kia and save even more money. That comparison assumes all the EV's electric is free and the batteries never wear out.

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#29
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/08/2013 1:55 PM
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#30
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

09/08/2013 2:35 PM

I was just talking straight cash.

Leasing or buying via a loan just adds insult to injury by inflating the price you pay for your vehicle even more. The numbers I cited for true cost of ownership just get worse when you borrow or lease.

Although nothing beats cash, if you lease or borrow $50K you are paying out a huge interest penalty compared to leasing or borrowing $10K.

However, it is bad economic sense to lease or borrow money for any car in the first place.

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#31
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Re: Open the Floodgates for Plug-In Electric Cars

11/10/2013 1:46 AM

"The simple fact that the electric car is far better for our planet and the environment makes its ultimate adoption inevitable as California is already proving." ---- NOT !

The throughput efficiency of Grid Power is somewhere in the pits - probably much less that a ICE Prime Mover Hybrid.

Centralizing the source of pollution doesn't solve any environmental problems and centralized power processes requires very expensive (secure and robust) infrastructure.

I'm all for the high efficiencies of electric motors and generators - but if the ultimate source of the energy is a coal, gas, or nuclear power plant then the thermal and transmission efficiencies are way to low to be considered an "efficient" form of transportation.

A well designed ICE/Electric Regenerative Capable Hybrid automobile would be significantly more efficient, environmentally friendly, and economical than any Grid Charged Electric Automobile. Perhaps fueled from the same natural gas pipe as your furnace and stove.

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