China Bans Microsoft Windows 8

There must be some logic to this move by the Chinese, but it escapes me.

It's not like it snuck up on them, many of us have known for a few year(s?) that Microsoft was going to officially discontinue support for XP. Heck, I think it was even mentioned as part of the Win 8 rollout.

Hey, 13 years is a good run! Has it really been 13 years since Win XP.

Here is funny;

Several months back my ISP (Virgin Media) informed me they were going to upgrade my speed. Nothing happens, then the whole show collapses.

Having exhausted all possible explanations, I find that the power levels down the cable are too high and etc. Bit of a shame I had iced the system and gone for re-install before dreagging an engineer out. Yep, I was well aware of discontinued support for XP. The good people at Dell have also axed support for such shameful devices as Inspiron models. Try find drivers for one of these antiques.

Guess what, apart from some security issues, the puppy is up and running. Granted, it`s about as safe as a burning house, but it works. This has now become sport. Youtube, CR4, Porn, email, I can do the lot. I`m now wandering what version of dos I could get running on this before I have to concede and bin it.

I`ve always fansied a trip to China, so if you`re reading guys......

I guess the Chinese feel the're being ripped off....let me just enjoy that thought a while....

There`s a delicious irony to it all (on both the Microsoft and Chinese sides).

......Former Microsoft chief executive Steve Ballmer reportedly told employees in 2011 that, because of piracy, the firm earned less revenue in China than in the Netherlands, even though demand matched that of the US......

"Yaarrrr Mateys!!"

Yes, but they want to be treated as a world power that they are. They just demand respect instead of trying to earn it.

China's just MAD because MS won't fix the bugs in China's "bootlegged" XP programs anymore...for them (China).

<splarf> Sie werden es bereuen.

Microsoft's bug fixes are lot like squeezing a balloon; the bugs just pop out somewhere else!

Ballmer, when he worked in Tech Support.

Somwhat to my shame, I have to admit I`d got it wrong all along. They could have at least instructed to put a wig on it,maybe some lippy . Bloody cheap Chinese stuff . Why in the name of all that`s holy post some home videos ? Don`t worry, I`ll not tell anyone

That looks like time-lapsed progression of boomer sailors greeting their wives on the dock upon return from each successive patrol. The 'underway eighty' didn't happen all at once, but it was relentless in its inevitable progression.

"Come here and let me give you a big hug"...as if any other type might have worked.

You guys are being silly about a silly subject, and I love it. But I suspect 70AARCuda is nearest the truth.

If XP is no longer supported, I know of many agencies in the US which will soon be using software China can't have developed hacks for, yet. And China can't be happy that the backdoors, virii, keyloggers, etc., they've planted on us are now going to have to be completely re-engineered. Especially at a time when we've just told them we aren't putting up with their cyber-theft any longer.

Of course, on another issue entirely, I doubt we'll REALLY do anything to China about the cyber-theft. After all, they already own most of everything in the US, due to our ever growing debt to them, engineered by our present White House and Congress. So, Micro-Snot gets the glory for putting the squeeze on them, and China pulls the plug on all us peons in the US, when they call in our debt in a fit of pique over the whole thing.

Maybe not. But shenanigans WILL ensue, to be certain.

"...China pulls the plug on all us peons in the US, when they call in our debt in a fit of pique over the whole thing."

China tries that and we declare war on them, and as part of the war acts, we declare all US debt certificates held by China, Chinese corporations and Chinese citizens null and void, and we confiscate all Chinese-owned property in the US and US-held territories.

This will obviously escalate into WWIII, after which it is doubtful that ANY country will have a functioning economy, do EVERYONE will be defaulting on their international debt like crazy, as there will be nobody with enough authority (read, military force) to enforce pre-war agreements. reaching any farther than a spear's throw from their city-state's walls.

Granting the irrefutable logic of all you say, and I most heartily do so, I doubt strongly that WE want to be the precipitater of a World-Wide financial/industrial/social meltdown, either.

So I think we're most likely to just let the theft ride, and leave anyone who wants to do business in these pirate-infested waters hanging in the breeze.

But the sequence of events is as follows:

1) China demands payment on Chinese held US bonds.

2) US 'Discovers' several Human Rights abuses that have been going on for decades in the People's Republic of China (which we all know about already), and officially sides with the Republic of China (Taiwan) as the 'rightful government of mainland China.' (The Republic of China is the former government of China before the Communist takeover, 'ruling in exile' from Taiwan. Both the RoC and the PRC claim sovregnety over Taiwan and mainland China.)

3) China declares the US sponsorship of Taiwan to be in violation of long standing 'One China' treaties.

4) US breaks off diplomatic relations with the PRC, negotiates with RoC to open an embassy in Taiwan.

5) China launches First Strike against Taiwan (mitigated my US forces with countermeasures), North Korea invades South Korea (North Korea and the PRC have a 'mutual defense pact,' if one goes to war, the other joins in automatically as an ally. North Korea goes after the South because the South is a 'US ally' and therefore 'fair game.')

6) Further details are vague, but involve handbaskets and traveling in a downward direction to a much warmer location.

So you see, China will throw the first punch and be declared the 'bad guy' by the international community. And after the fighting is over, nobody's going to be in much shape to stick their nose in anybody else's business for a while.

"....1) China demands payment on Chinese held US bonds.....:"

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Why demand payment in exchange for bonds? If they don't feel bound by the conditions under which the bonds were knowingly purchased, why use the bonds at all? If they just demand/attempt to extort whatever arbitrary amount they feel justified, then they can keep the bonds for a later date.

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I don't think any acceleration clauses exist that allow China to call the bonds they hold due. Any demand outside what is specified, would be wanton aggression.

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At any rate, the idea that China would want to create that kind of chaos is hard to accept. What possible beneficial outcome might result?

I never said this was likely, I was just following the chain of events from Micahd02's post:

"Of course, on another issue entirely, I doubt we'll REALLY do anything to China about the cyber-theft. After all, they already own most of everything in the US, due to our ever growing debt to them, engineered by our present White House and Congress. So, Micro-Snot gets the glory for putting the squeeze on them, and China pulls the plug on all us peons in the US, when they call in our debt in a fit of pique over the whole thing."

I'm pretty good at, what's the buzzword these days, 'futurecasting,' coming up with what-if scenarios and playing them out to logical conclusions. That chain of events shown explains WHY China won't try anything beyond banning Windows 8 in retaliation for the end of XP support.

This planet runs on a Global Economy, even 'isolationist' governments are part of it, North Korea trades with China and, reluctantly, with South Korea(1). We've seen how everything is inter-related, one nation has an economic crisis, and the Ripples of Doom spread over every other nation, shaking up their economies as well. Nations that used to hurl spears at each other every day (twice on Sundays) shifted to political 'arm-wrestling' during the 'Cold War' era, and now, it's hard to tell if those political arms are trying to push each other down or hold each other up, 'limited war is good for Business' and all that.

Aside from the 'irreconcilable arguments' which all boil down to who's Holy Scripture is better/more truthful/the only true one, No nation truly wants to utterly destroy another, just gain an economic advantage an get a bigger share of the 'lunch money.'

Notes:

1) North Korea's economic relations with South Korea are 'interesting,' like two kids sitting in the school cafeteria. Both Nate and Sam want to trade deserts, Sam just wants to trade his cupcake for a cookie, but Nate is convinced that Sam wants to steal his milk, all while Nate is trying to steal Sam's milk. Some of the other students would say Nate is too suspicious and paranoid for his own good, but Nate never listens to them.

Okay, that seems far more reasonable that how I read it originally.

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Just putting this out there, I'd be happy to provide assurances of lunch food safety for both Sam and Nate, allowing them to enjoy in peace what portions of milk cookie and cupcake remain after my substantial fees.

"And after the fighting is over, nobody's going to be in much shape to stick their nose in anybody else's business for a while."

Dis vould be a good ting, I'm tinkin'. China included. The dust just MIGHT blow the X. Jong-Ils out of office, and that would definitely ALLOW for improvement.

After the dust settles, NOBODY will be able to exert power outside of 'spear-throw' range, so 'China' will cease to exist as a single nation, as will Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Israel, Canada, England, the US.

Probably the only ones who will squeak through unscathed will be Our German Friends, by which I mean the Amish. When the whole planet gets blown back to the Dung Age, they'll be the best off, all they lose is their electric lighting and the one-per-village telephone. We all loose something like 100-200 years of progress, they lose .. a week, maybe?

Good points, all. And certainly what the "preppers" are prepping for. Though I suspect the more extreme (Note, no flames, I DID NOT say they are wrong, just that they are in the extreme part of the prepper-philosophy spectrum.) plan for it to be much worse than that, to the point that the pacifist Amish will not survive the onslaught of hungry former-welfare recipients. So even the Amish would lose out big-time in that scenario. The rest of us? Depends on how far, how fast, and with what, we can run for the hills, I suspect.

Here's hoping NONE of this comes to pass, but planning for it, just the same.

With their Vow of Pacifism? Three bratty teenagers with basebal bats could wipe out an Amish community.

The best plan for survival would be the following:

The Amish community would be surrounded by a ring of "Not-So-Crazy English," (To the Amish, anyone from outside the community is 'English') who learn how to raise barns, tend crops, raise barns, care for livestock, raise barns, and so on, building a 'buffer zone' of people who can trade peacefully with the Dutch (As the Amish tend to refer to themselves as). Did I mention the barn raising skills?

Outside of that ring would be a ring of "Crazy English" who do not go near the Amish communities, and in fact stay far enough away that the Amish won't even know they're out there. These people would learn how to farm from the Not-So-Crazy English, and would form a 'defense zone' fighting back against the bandit hordes and keeping them out of the more peaceful zones.

Outside of THAT you have a ring of "The Godless Heathens," the people who are not doing any farming or community building, just focusing on making sure the people in the Crazy English zone only have wooden dummies to fight against. Yes, this is effectively the militia/military border of the extended community.

Plausible. And with luck, that's the way it will shake out for the Amish. But otherwise, not so good, I'm thinking. Like the Not Sane English become their direct neighbors, by hook or crook, and presto-chango, no more Amish.

I agree with the bratty teenagers with baseball bats assessment, by the way. My father was a Mennonite Conscientous Objector in WWII, when you couldn't just opt-out because of your convictions. He served in places like the Arden Forest, and the Dieppe Railyards, doing both rail and supply guard work, and as a hospital orderly. We're glad he came home, but he never carried a bang-stick of any definition, and had to run, with the infirm on his back, more than once in the late years/months of the war. Not a good time, I'm thinking, to be a pacifist.

Me? No pacificism here. Try to take what is my family's, or my neighbor's, by any other than MUTUAL consent, and I'll shoot you. (Metaphorically, that is, since I don't expect YOU, personally, will be one of those Not So Sane English. More like one of us Just Not Quite Nutso types. The ones who'll PRACTICE on the wooden dummies, and save the real stuff for the leaky types to follow.)

Shoot. And I'M not even a prepper!

"Shoot. And I'M not even a prepper!"

I think ALL engineers are preppers to some degree. Even if we're not stockpiling food and ammo we're thinking about things like security and "If things *DO* go all pear-shaped, what would be the safest thing to do for myself and my family?"

After the initial chaos, you'll probably find that a disproportionate ratio of the survivors will be Engineers, Boy Scouts/Scouters, and 'Cantankerous Farmers,' people who all know how to prepare for bad times, make do with what is available, and keep the less-than-savory types either far away or put then on the root side of the grass. And now that I think of it, that'll be a good mix to rebuild Society with, you've got Builders and Problem Solvers, Foragers, Land-Tenders. You could get a thriving village set up in a month, down to a week if you've got a nearby ghost town to re-inhabit.

...China pulls the plug on all us peons in the US, when they call in our debt in a fit of pique over the whole thing...'

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I doubt there are any provisions in the US government bonds that China holds that reasonably allow China to demand accelerated repayment without material default. I hear this threat echoed repeatedly over time, but I don't know of any substantiation. If you can link to some detailing of any provisions for voluntary acceleration of repayment, it would make these claims about China 'calling the debt due' seem far less hysterical/sensationalist.

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In actuality even if accelerations clauses do exist, it is far too much of a two way street, for China to go cold turkey on selling things to the US. In many ways the dependencies are quite similar. The US is addicted to arranging import of mostly crappy, low durability consumer goods. In mirror fashion, China is addicted to arranging for import of crappy, low durability debt iinstruments, i.e. sovereign notes, bills and bonds. Trading crappy plastic for crappy paper doesn't really seem to have an inherent loser....or at least not just one.

"After all, they already own most of everything in the US, due to our ever growing debt to them."

This is an oft quoted fallacy, the fact is that Americans own the lion's share of our 'debt', foreign owners hold a minority amount of our bonds, this fact has been in evidence for a very long time, we have owned a majority of the debt since the US went into 'debt' many years ago.

Microsoft probably hasn't put out near error free software since DOS way back when, at best Microsoft seems to put out a 'good' product with every other attempt, WIN 3.1 wasn't too bad, WIN 95 was sort of good, WIN98 had some stability problems that was pretty well fixed with WIN98SE, then WIN2000 came along with its various flavors of mediocre brothers, WIN XP was another 'good' system albeit with some flaws, many (but not all) actually were fixed. VISTA was a dismal failure, WIN 7 was a vast improvement over VISTA, WIN 8, not so good, rather sloppy and WIN 8.1 was just pig slop again.

Microsoft's latest ideas for pedalling their somewhat mediocre software is likely to result in the natives rebelling in mass, witness Office 365 a balloon full of methane, magnesium and sulfur dioxide just waiting to be popped, should be glorious.

China can't rip off Microsoft smerfware. They can only reverse engineer a finished product.

MS never finishes anything, and they leave the bugs in for their customers to fix.

When you think about it that way it explains a lot on why you don't see pirate reverse engineered Windows operating systems.

I wish I could find the article, but it was written by a Small N Limp insider about what it's like at Microsoft working as a programmer on Windows' core elements.

According to the author, everyone there is afraid to innovate because Windows is so incredibly bloated and fragile. If they make one little change in the core code they risk Everest coming down on their heads. Everything is interdependent on everything else and nobody quite knows now how it all hooks together. It is a systems architect's nightmare. One little change and Lord knows what else will break, and so nobody takes risks. Why should they? According to the author, if it works, it's Business-As-Usual but, if it fails, you can forget all about your career at Microsoft. All risk, no reward. And is it any wonder that many of the really sharp people eventually go on to better things, leaving the captives behind?

I used to write Windows device drivers and application code, years ago. I stopped developing for Windows and started developing exclusively for other, non-Microsoft projects intead; Linux drivers and apps, open-source projects, etc.

One reason was that Windows itself was/is like a medieval tapestry: pretty on outside but, when you turn it over, all you see are knots and string. Except for the pay, writing Windows' code was completely unrewarding in every way.

The other reason was that my code depended on the reliability of Microsoft-supplied software components. APIs, mainly. Nothing wrong with that in principle, but when M$' components repeatedly didn't work as advertised, guess whose code got blamed? Mine.

Essentially I was staking my professional reputation on junk that I had no control over, no chance of peeking under the hood, no time to reverse-engineer (even if I wanted to) and was crap as often as not. I am very conscientious about my code. Extremely so - I'd rather not write it all than write shit.

After the cause of my client's last blamestorm was finally traced (yet again) to M$' code, it was the last straw. I told them, "F--- this. No more staking my rep on Microsoft's rubbish. Either put the blame where it belongs or migrate to some other OS whose quality we do have control over; preferably Linux."

on this i am with china...regardless of the technical issues reported in others comments (not being a programmer i can't really relate to their opinions) microsoft could contiue a modicum of support with minimal impact on their bottom line and maximal impact on customer loyalty long term..imho

WinXP was one of MS's mistakes in that context, but they had to do it, to get to a safe distance from the disgrace of OSes, WinMe, and the stiffness of Win2000. Now Xp will probably have most of its planted hidden backdoors (and not bugs IMHO) closed, by reverse engineering. S.M.

Well, the reason I expect that China has banned Win8, is that with so much of China running on XP (almost entirely pirated, I suspect, but that issue has been dealt with elsewhere in this thread), China has undoubtedly back-doored every domestic copy of XP it knows about in it's own country (as well as all of them it could reach in other countries). Don't underestimate China's ability, whether native or purchased from contractors in other countries, to cyber-spy. If China now ALLOWS Win8 on it's shores, it, ipso facto, has to put in all new backdoors, even just for the copies in, or coming into, China. (You didn't really think they'd give up that level of control over information available to the Chinese people, did you? No, I was pretty sure we're all smarter than that!)

And to compound their headaches, they have to try to do the same thing to all the adopters of Win8 in other countries whom they still consider targets of interest. At least, banning Win8 from China proper allows them a smaller target to infect before they have to start doing the same thing at home.

And MicroSnot did the right thing for its own country, for once, because all of this is caused by MicroSnot, as usual, trying to soak it's loyal customers for more money. Oh, all right, I admit, they probably had good sound economic reason, as well as distancing themselves from things like Vista and 2000, which were pretty sordid failures. But In still prefer to think that even when they do something right, they do if for the wrong reason, and INTEND to do it TO the wrong people. I admit I don't like MicroSnot, and I admit its an unreasonable bias, at least in its depth.

But it's MY bias, and I'm going to hang on to it. It's so handy to explain otherwise stupid events.