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Solution: Space Wars Challenge

Posted December 09, 2007 11:00 PM by Jorrie

The challenge: During the space wars, you were standing on the Moon, watching two fast spaceships passing horizontally overhead, line astern, one chasing the other at identical constant speeds relative to you. When the midpoint between them was directly overhead, you observed them to simultaneously fire a single shot at one another, but the two bullets spectacularly collided and exploded. If the muzzle velocities were identical, did that collision happen exactly halfway between the two spaceships?

The answer is no. The bullets collided closer to the rear ship due to the fact that the front ship fired earlier than the rear ship. This is all due to the relativity of simultaneity. When observers are in relative motion, they don't agree on what's simultaneous and what's not, because simultaneity is relative. The 'man on the moon' observed those shots as simultaneous, but the crew of both ships agreed that the pursuer has been 'beaten to the draw' by the pursued.

The easiest way to visualize the situation is by means of a Loedel spacetime diagram. The blue coordinates X,cT represent the 'man on the moon', while the red coordinates X,cT represent the inertial frame of the two passing spaceships, flying line astern, d meters apart as measured by their on-board radars.

The blue dots marked xr (rear) and xf (front) represent the spatial positions of the simultaneous firing of the two guns in the blue (moon) frame. In the red (spaceship) frame the guns were not fired simultaneously, because its lines of simultaneity are parallel to the red x-axis. In that frame, the front ship fired dv/c2 seconds before the rear ship fired, where v is the speed of the two ships relative to the man on the moon and c the speed of light.[1]

If the front ship fired first, the two bullets must have collided aft of their moving midpoint. Now let's say the muzzle speeds of both guns were u m/s relative to the firing ship. Neglecting the Moon's weak gravity for the moment, we need to solve a simple Newtonian equation in the spaceship frame to obtain the time to collision (t) for the rear ship's bullet.

ut + u(t + dv/c2) = d, where

t + dv/c2 is the time to collision for the front ship's bullet. This gives:

t = (d/2u) (1-uv/c2), from where it is easy to determine the position of the collision relative to whoever. The collision distance xc from the rear ship, in the ships frame of reference:

xc = ut = (d/2) (1-uv/c2), which is obviously less than halfway.

Let's plug in some 'realistic' values for the era of "Space War I". Say the ships were streaking past the Moon at 10-4 c (30 km/s) and the bullet muzzle velocity was 10 times that. The value uv/c2 works out to 10-4 x 10-3 = 10-7, or 1 part per 10 million. If the ships were separated by 2 km, the deviation from midpoint would have been 0.1 mm, probably a tad too small to notice. By the time of "Space War II", technology should have pushed both speeds up by a factor 10, so the deviation from the midpoint might become 10-3 x 10-2 = 103 x 10-5 m, or 1 cm, easily detectable by the technology of that time.

In conclusion, a few words on the effect of the Moon's gravity on the collision point. In the ship-frame, the Moon is moving 'backwards', in the same direction as the leading ship's bullet and against the chasing ship's bullet. This will cause a very slight asymmetry in the gravitational accelerations of the two bullets, but for this scenario (bullet travel time is some 3.33 ms) it is negligible when compared to the non-simultaneity effect. For example, the 'vertical drop' of the horizontally fired bullets will be in the order of 0.01 mm and the asymmetry effect is another order of magnitude less.

Utterly useless and sometimes controversial information, but then, after the moon dust has settled, you will probably never view simultaneity in the same light again!

Jorrie

[1] This free download from Relativity 4 Engineers deals with synchronization of clocks in depth. (eBook page 33+)

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#1

Re: Solution: Space Wars Challenge

12/10/2007 6:12 AM

Hello Jorrie,

Thanks for the explanation, although some of your maths is presently beyond me.

I generally prefer to reason things out from basic principles.

And Relativity, is of course, a "relative to each observer" state.

This question is absolutely marvellous for use at a dinner table, during a lull in the conversation.

One day I intend to pose CR4 Members a puzzle, but not today, because it's after midnight here, and my coach has turned into a pumpkin once again....

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Solution: Space Wars Challenge

12/10/2007 1:14 PM

Hi SparkS, you wrote: "I generally prefer to reason things out from basic principles."

You know what, all of this 'relativity of simultaneity' can be reasoned out from basic principles - after all, that's what Einstein did! I must admit that it is sometimes slightly counter-intuitive and hence hard to wrap one's head around.

I tried my best to make it 'engineering-like' on my website, but maybe another try might be useful someday, some place...

Jorrie

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#3

Re: Solution: Space Wars Challenge

12/11/2007 12:25 PM

Isn't his relativity of simultaneity business totally esoteric and removed from all reality? We obviously do not see everything that is simultaneous as happening simultaneously, but once the corrections for the travel time of light has been made, I'll bet my bottom dollar that what I reckon is simultaneous is the same thing that you will reckon as simultaneous. Or what am I missing here?

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Solution: Space Wars Challenge

12/11/2007 11:46 PM

Hi Guest.

Removed from our everyday reality? Yes. Totally esoteric? No!

When things go very fast relative to one another, simultaneity is compromised in the way that I described above. Without taking that into account, the GPS system just won't work accurately.

It is not only relative speed, but also relative position in a gravitational field that influences simultaneity. This is also taken into account in the GPS system.

Jorrie

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