Engineering News Blog

Engineering News

Latest news of interest to engineers. Sourced from GlobalSpec's Engineering News

Previous in Blog: Zero Carbon "Floating World" or Northern England   Next in Blog: How many gallons of water do you need to power a lightbulb?
Close
Close
Close
14 comments
Rate Comments: Nested

Plants 'thrive' on Moon rock diet

Posted April 17, 2008 1:43 PM

From BBC News | Science/Nature | UK Edition:

European Space Agency scientists believe they are nearer to finding a way to grow plants on the Moon. An Esa-linked team has shown that marigolds can grow in crushed rock very like the lunar surface, with no need for plant food. Some see growing plants on the Moon as a step towards human habitation. But the concept is not an official aim of Esa, and one of the agency's senior officials has dismissed the idea as "science fiction". The new research was presented at the European Geosciences Union (EGU) meeting in Vienna, the largest annual European gathering of scientists studying the Earth, its climate and its neighbours in space. Bernard Foing, a senior scientist with the European Space Research and Technology Centre (Estec) in the Netherlands, believes growing plants on the Moon would be a useful tool to learn how life adapts to lunar conditions, and as a practical aid to establishing manned bases. "We would bring a system of water circulation and recovery, which is also the type of system that in any case you want to develop when you are going to manufacture a primitive sort of life support system," he told BBC News. "So it is also a kind of `technological breadboard' for maintaining a simple life form in an extreme environment."

Read the whole article

Reply

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth. England/America -the birthplace of the C. S. A. - anywhere I imagine -home.
Posts: 773
Good Answers: 33
#1

Re: Plants 'thrive' on Moon rock diet

04/18/2008 1:04 AM

"one of the agency's senior officials has dismissed the idea as "science fiction"."

Yeah, just like the Mars Rover, satellites, the wrist radio and many other things. Science fiction has a tendency to become real. What a butthead.

__________________
No technology is so obsolete that it won't work. A stone knife still can kill you as dead as a laser.
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 9
#2

Re: Plants 'thrive' on Moon rock diet

04/18/2008 10:57 AM

This science is rather scary when you think of the consequences that we may unleash by trying to grow plants on the Moon. The simplest of plants my thrive on the Moon, but how much do we want them to "thrive"? What if we introduce a simple plant to the surface of the Moon and it thrives to the point where it literally "takes over" that celestial body? Can it happen? I don't perport to have that answer, but I think more extensive investigation is warranted here. The "pollution" of the Moon with an earthly plant growth is very scary to me.

__________________
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 576
Good Answers: 13
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Plants 'thrive' on Moon rock diet

04/18/2008 12:50 PM

Maybe you jest, but in case not: plants won't grow in a vacuum. The Moon plants would only grow inside of pressurized buildings. Even if plants could grow in a vacuum, would a Moon covered with greenery really be less preferable than a one covered with barren rocks and dust?

__________________
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 9
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Plants 'thrive' on Moon rock diet

04/18/2008 2:46 PM

You bring up some good points. And I am "quasi-serious". First of all, plants are very adaptable generally. The atmosphere atop the highest of mountains isn't a "vacuum" by any stretch of the imagination, but how much would it take for a plant indigenous to that atmosphere to adapt to the atmosphere on the Moon, given that the Moon is so close to the Earth and doesn't have the total vacuum demonstrated by bodies further outside the Earth's influence?

And, a Moon covered in greenery, although pretty, may not have the reflective power that a barren, rock strewn Moon surface may have. Now, is that a problem? I don't know. Is that even fact? I don't know that either. That is why my original response implies that we should proceed with caution in an experiment such as this. Much can be learned from such an endeavor, but caution is imperative.

__________________
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 576
Good Answers: 13
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Plants 'thrive' on Moon rock diet

04/19/2008 8:18 PM

I think you have a valid point in that changing the Moon's reflectivity might cause problems on Earth -- especially to any animals or insects that depend on moonlight. And in principle, plants could adapt to near-vacuum conditions by evolving an impermeable outer skin. But I think the transition could not occur abruptly from 1 atmosphere to near vacuum in one jump (as in the case of plants suddenly escaping the Moon labs). The plants would probably need much time and also some genetic engineering help from humans. But there still remain more problems. The moon's surface has very little water, and the plants would need access to more water as they grew. The temperature can get very cold -- far below freezing. The plant's skin, as well as tightly holding in volatile molecules, and acting as a heat radiator/solar collector, would need to protect the plant from the damaging effects of strong UV light and cosmic rays.

__________________
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth. England/America -the birthplace of the C. S. A. - anywhere I imagine -home.
Posts: 773
Good Answers: 33
#6
In reply to #2

Re: Plants 'thrive' on Moon rock diet

04/20/2008 2:22 AM

Commoner, do you have any sense at all or are you afraid of everything. The story said the plants grew well in crushed Moon rock HERE ON EARTH, WHERE THERE IS AIR, WATER AND MODERATE TEMPERATURES!! All of those are lacking on the Moon. Are you perhaps 8 years old or are you really that ignorant? I sincerely hope you are not an engineer.

__________________
No technology is so obsolete that it won't work. A stone knife still can kill you as dead as a laser.
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 9
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Plants 'thrive' on Moon rock diet

04/21/2008 4:22 PM

Actually, I am not as afraid as you may think. I am simply furnishing fodder for discussion. As they say, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." As for being an engineer, I question your affiliation as I am skeptical that any engineer worth his salt would be as insulting as you have demonstrated. I apologize if my ignorance disturbs you. I guess I am not as learned as you.

__________________
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 576
Good Answers: 13
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Plants 'thrive' on Moon rock diet

04/22/2008 11:34 AM

Commoner,

Just like any other large group of people, CR4 includes a few members (and guests) who occasionally indulge in emotional over-reaction. Ad hominem attacks do not serve any useful purpose. Instead of ridiculing a person, intelligent replies should focus on cordial critique of the technical points. As imperfect beings we all slip once in a while. So please don't let rude replies discourage you from asking questions or contributing to discussions here.

__________________
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 9
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Plants 'thrive' on Moon rock diet

04/22/2008 2:43 PM

Thank you so much. My reaction to the criticism directed at me was "un-common" for The Commoner. Perhaps I over reacted. I apologize to you and this forum and I hold the participants in the highest regard, including my critics. Afterall, criticism is part of healthy discussion. Perhaps I should listen to my own advice, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." This is all rather new to me and I learn with each interaction with this esteemed body of individuals. I will be better.

__________________
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 576
Good Answers: 13
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Plants 'thrive' on Moon rock diet

04/22/2008 6:39 PM

I understand why you reacted as you did. We all want respect -- it would hurt me too if another person (even a complete stranger) insulted me for merely asking a question. I am more bothered by the rudeness of the person who attacked you first. But I do encourage you to resist the temptation to react in kind. Better (for your health and your credibility) to keep your cool and focus on the technical issues. And this way you can look back on events without regrets.

By the way, there exist species of fungi whose spores can survive a hard vacuum. So it seems possible in principle that plants could evolve (with or without outside help) the features needed to live in space. What seems far-fetched today might someday become common knowledge.

__________________
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 9
#13
In reply to #10

Re: Plants 'thrive' on Moon rock diet

04/23/2008 7:53 AM

Svengali, I thank you for your interention. As you may be able to see from the responses, Taganan and I have come to some agreement and I don't see the need for further discussion. I beleive it's time for me to move on to another topic. "Tu ne cede malis sed contra auditior ito."

__________________
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 576
Good Answers: 13
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Plants 'thrive' on Moon rock diet

04/23/2008 12:26 PM

Commoner,

You're very welcome! Glad to see our CR4 family in harmony again. When I first joined this group, I posted a few grouchy messages complaining about of the "excessive" amount of off-topic posts (and also because of some negative bias I experienced while posting a few times as a guest). But over the months I have come to realize that I really really like this forum after all. I just needed to expand my mind and loosen up a bit so that I could appreciate the variety of insightful, witty, and zany messages. Messages, which although sometimes technically "off-topic", have led my mind in very interesting directions. This forum also offers insights into human personality, which helps with the much-needed skill of communicating productively with people of vastly different viewpoints. I've enjoyed the ride, and look forward to more.

__________________
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth. England/America -the birthplace of the C. S. A. - anywhere I imagine -home.
Posts: 773
Good Answers: 33
#11
In reply to #7

Re: Plants 'thrive' on Moon rock diet

04/22/2008 7:33 PM

Commoner - Glad to hear that you are not as that post led me to believe and were just attempting to get something stirred up. It was late, the dog was barking at me and I was irritated by several other utterly ignorant statements. I apologize for dumping my frustrations on you, thinking that you were ignorant and not realizing that it was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, a joke. In rereading it now I can laugh over it, knowing it was not serious.

Engineers are human too and I have met a few that could insult like Don Rickles, but were serious about it.

__________________
No technology is so obsolete that it won't work. A stone knife still can kill you as dead as a laser.
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 9
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Plants 'thrive' on Moon rock diet

04/23/2008 7:44 AM

Thank you Taganan!! You have just elevated yourself to a new position of esteem in my book. I accept your apology unconditionally, even though it wasn't necessary. Perhaps I was little touchy myself. I'll try to thicken up my skin a little and not allow my emotions to interefere with my more "scientific" side, if you will. I look forward to more discussion with you on future topics. Thanks again.

__________________
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
Reply
Reply to Blog Entry 14 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

svengali (5); Taganan (3); The Commoner (6)

Previous in Blog: Zero Carbon "Floating World" or Northern England   Next in Blog: How many gallons of water do you need to power a lightbulb?

Advertisement