Is Patent Protection Worthwhile?

I hate to say this, but some or all imported products could be taxed, to subsidized infringement to the injured party, and that goes to foreign governments also.

but when government gets involved what would happen is it would just be another tax to fatten bureaucrats and attorneys with very little crumbs left.........did I say that out loud.

The U.N. should do it, but they can be very ineffective. They would only want to tax the larger wealthier cointries, and funnel it eslewhere.

" Patent Protection " What protection do you expect?

A patent gives you a right to sue anyone who infinges the patent. Making and/or selling the item patented.

No other party is set up to do the sueing for you.

Ever tried to sue a Chinese company in a Chinese "court"?

As cnpower would say; he he.

That is why so many American Businesses went oversea because their patents were running out or had run out. If anyone was going to make their product it might as well be them. So they cut off the competitiors by making a cheaper vesrion of their own product overseas.

All, Ya I got a patent pending. Sure wish I had read all the comments before I started with this idea. Problem is I don't why??

One thing for sure I am truly impressed with the comments on this subject

Del

President,C&O Engineering

San Jose, CA

http://www.flickr.com/photos/17683133@N02/sets/

del@co-engineering.net

www.co-engineering.net

Hi Del

Please be advised that my comments were born out of bitterness. They should not be seen as a guide to patenting. There are many other issues that need to be considered as you have and will find out in the future.

I had some very good advice on the matter and have changed my view on things. Not a 180 deg. but just a necessary change of course, a correction if you like. Most of all, I have stopped sulking and blaming others and the system. Use the 'system' but be aware that it will cost you, and a bit more. Only if you are completely convinced, that your idea will be a success, take the 'Tiger' by the tail. The claws are not those of a paper tiger and can cause damage to you and all around you. Tread very carefully what ever you do.

Never trust anybody but your self. Keep all decision making very close to your chest and listen very carefully to your instincts. A gut-feeling is sometimes more worth than all advice, free or paid.

As you know a ship/boat that looks pleasing to the eye is usually good to drive. Its the same with ideas only more complex and more expensive in maintenance. If the wish to sail, and test the rigging and all, is stronger than the wish to stay at home, then go for it. Make sure you get updates on the 'weather' and its patterns. If you don't succeed it's sad. If you succeed be very weary who you sail with. It can get very choppy out there!

All the best. Ky

Wow KY, impressive. Very very well put.

I hope everything is going well for you.

Thunder storm here so have to go

Cheers - Turi,

No.

Far smarter to licence or collect some sort of royalty on a negotiated basis, everyone saves on lawyer's fees that way.

Del

You can go after the company that is in your country that is selling or distributing the copy (Stirling Stan said something similar). This may be much easier than going after the manufacturer that is in another country.

I have read of cases where putting the seller on notification of their infringement has got the proper patent holder some royalties or got the infringer to stop importing, without a law suit.

Like it has been said, a patent is only a 'right to sue'. Patents for 'little guys' can do some good. Especially if you have something that is basic and some 'big guys' want.

My son had a patent issued while he was in Jr high, for work done while he was in elementary school. For him, the real value in the patent was in opening doors. It HELPed get him into Olin College (olin.edu), it HELPed get him an internship at BBN (bbn.com), it HELPed him get the position as the directory of the Foundry (a business incubator on the Olin campus), it HELPed a lot. ( FYI, the patent work and initial fees were done probono by a premier intelectual property firm in Houston. I think they did it to fulfill a probono requirement, he was a kid, and we had stated in the news paper that we had investigated it and we could not afford to go through the patent process. It is unreasonably expensive for individuals today to fund the process without VERY deep pockets, at least related to our financial circumstsances. Yes, we did try to market it to 'manufacturers', but with no interest and few even acknowledged receipt of communications. The NIH is very previlent in industry.)

Did he recieve:
MONEY from the patent? No.
Did he receive VALUE from the patent? Yes.

If you are working for someone else and they want the patent assigned to them, you probably get a 'attaboy', possibly a raise, some bragging rights, and possibly some more 'longevity' when others are being laid off. If you go somewhere else you keep your name on the patent, even if you assigned the rights to others.

For that the assignee gets the right to sue, etc.

If you are an individual, again you keep the bragging rights, the posibility of being able to monitize and protect (aka sue) your idea.

Many large firms do NOT patent 'everything' they can. Many keep 'trade secrets' that can protect some things MUCH longer than patents can (think Coke formula here).

IMHO, <soapbox> doing business with countries that allow/support/trade with other countries that do KNOWINGLY allow their country people to violate international law (patents) in this case, pretty much invalidates the law for practical purposes. I would like to see removing patent protection rights of companies and individuals that do business in or are based in countries where they could violate patent laws. Allowing the import of known 'patent infringements' should be a crime that is in line with economic terrorism, and not considered 'white collar' crime. </soapbox>

For some articles related to 'not patenting' see www.tinaja.com , the site of author Don Lancaster. He is also into pseudo-science debunking and practical engineering.

Other than my last diatribe, I hope this has been useful to someone.

Hi servant74

Thank you for the link. There are many others telling the same story. The answer to the original question Is Patent Protection Worthwhile? must be NO. I have 3 projects on hold for just those reasons and it is very frustrating.

If it would not be for the exitement and satisfaction of proto typing I wouldn't be doing it at all. On bad days I would even call it a fruitless art.These inventions are all in the low tech area and easy to copy. I'll wait for a better hand and some people that know how to play the game and play by the rules of gentlemen.

On your own? Never!

Shortest joke of all time: Inventor comes to patent office. Ky.

Thanks be that we don't treat the prosecution of burglary or assault the same way!

Perhaps we ought to push to get IP THEFT treated as criminal?

I am also an inventor (individual), and here are a few facts for the ill informed.

1/ No patent: No royalties.

2/ The chances of getting to market and recovering R & D funding/costs: Slim.

3/ The chances of getting required Government (ie: worldwide), approvals, licenses to market a safe invention: Slim.

My invention was a new vehicle transmission. Due to an accident I lost the patent. But I do have a chance at recovering what I have lost DUE TO MY PATENT APPLICATION. If I had not applied for a patent, I would have no claim what so ever. Also, for industry to accept this invention and to get the required Government safety certificates worldwide, (ie: via testing for each and every part, etc) it was to cost between Aus$100 - $250 MILLION. This is just the reality of bringing something to market. To raise these type of funds for your R & D; your invention needs protection for the people investing in you. NO PATENT - NO INVESTMENT. You get out of it what you put into it. When you are talking these types of dollar amounts it is very easy to protect your invention in the courts. And of course, with a patent, you get the investors to take it to market.

Those who are of the negative on this subject probably have inventions that are great, but not that marketable. If you believe it is marketable, apply for your patent, then you will find the investors to fund your product to the shelves. Ther are millions of private people, fund managers, venture capital mentors etc willing to risk, (and even with a patent you are very high risk) their money on a great outcome and will be willing to protect their investment where-ever, worldwide. As per everything else, most of the time you have to work as hard on finding your investors as you did on the actual invention. This is just the nature of the arena you have chosen to play in. Play; and most of all - ENJOY, it is just a part of the 'whole'. It really is worthwhile. All the little successes, as with the invention, are very motivating, overriding the downers along the way.

And, by the way, China is like the rest of the world, they need business and if they infringe patents, no one will do business with them, or import the infringed lines. That simple.

Summary, PATENT and make it worthwhile. You'll reach the world that way and reap the royalties. With todays technology, companies can steal your unpatented idea before it comes out of the factory and will ALWAYS find a cheaper way of manufacturing it than you can, (the ordinary individual).

Due to an accident I lost the patent. But I do have a chance at recovering what I have lost DUE TO MY PATENT APPLICATION.

That should maked your attorney very happy.

good luck

phoenix911, actually, not the patent attorneys, they have lost $100's of thousands.

I owe my Personal Injury Lawyers about $350K all up, and we are not in court yet, that will be from between $250 - $500K. So you are right there!

But like I said, you get out of it what you put into it.

2QWK2C

Your comment;

not the patent attorneys, they have lost $100's of thousands.

Who's money...yours or the attorney's.

It sounds like you have experience in this also, but not whether I'm being right or wrong, what I'm saying you have a chance of recuping what is due to you, but it is only a chance, if not, win or lose the only ones the can really profit off your IP/invention is the attorneys. That is coming from my experience with attorneys.

i.e. if your going to choice a battle, choose one you think you can win.

I wish you well and good luck to you 2QWK2C

phoenix911

phoenix911, you are exactly right, it is only a chance. If I lived in the USA I would be suing for $1 - $2B.

However, I live in Australia and our claim is huge for here, over $40m. If we strike a Judge having a bad day, we have been told we could get as little as $1 - $5m even though the patent has been valued at around $15m (that figure has been discounted 50% for contingencies) at the date of the accident. This is the really hard part to take. It will come down to the judge and how he/she feels on the day. Not the lawyers. As I have said, we have learnt, "you have to instruct your lawyers". They are on your side because if you have done your home work, and you are a winner, they will be winners.

Our Patent Attorneys lost my/the inventions money because I was unable to continue the patent process. If I had carried on they would have made a bundle. But remember, because of them, I would have made an even bigger bundle. A bundle I could not have made without them, this is a simple fact.

As for choosing battles, they, (the other-sides lawyers), admitted full liability TEN YEARS ago on the 3rd Dec 1998! I have already won. I just do not know what!

Bit of a chuckle heh.

those figure will to be taken serious by any attorney.

Very realistic approach 2QWK2C and very well meant.

cost between Aus$100 - $250 MILLION

This seems to be an amount derived from R+D out of any ones league. The product you have patented will need substantial infra structure and all other tools to make it happen. In this case you and any future partners will need patent protection and must at all times be able to keep the legal eagles happy. This is just the problem for the back yard inventor.

inventions that are great, but not that marketable.

I reject this. If marketability is not the second step of investigating an idea for its value/merit don't do the next step. The three I have been working on are simply perfect for marketing. All the distribution lines are in place. Just another product to be organized by the people who do it best.

Ther are millions of private people, fund managers, venture capital mentors etc willing to risk,

Try and approach them with no Patent. Catch 22 or even better caught 44. You are right about the joy of it all though. Ky.

Ky, actually, not out of everyones league. It is just something you have to do. Every part has to be tested for life, safety, stresses etc. Most developed countries governments require these as minimum safety standards in most products sold to the public. Trust me, the money is there for any great idea to get to the market. You have to understand though, you have to play by their rules, and a patent is a very big part of most of their rules. The money thing is also a gradual thing, no one pops out with $250m and says there you go. But the money is there. We expected our technology to eventually turn over around $2.4B p.a. gross, so $100 - $250m is quite a small percentage over a twenty year patent life, (a patent life that's always able to be extended of course). As for tools; we had to learn the hard way as there was little information there to assist us. Today, it is all at your finger tips, from the VC's to the governments, everyone wants a piece of good technology. Our technology was called "disruptive technology" as we had the ability to put a few of the big, well established manufacturers out of business. Our legal eagles both then and now seriously have to keep me happy. If they do not, they get no money. I pay them to keep me happy. I have learnt this the hard way over 12 years. The thing you have to learn is that lawyers ONLY take instructions from you, or they do nothing. You need to do the ground work of course, then instruct them. They will give you advice, but at the end of the day you have to instruct them. They are on your side. By the way, I am a "backyard inventor" who once knew 'squat', and had to learn the whole lot the real hard way. But because I had to I did. It is what I chose to do.

I reject this. If marketability is not the second step of investigating.....

The three I have been working on are simply perfect for marketing....

You may reject this, however, IF any piece of any of your three inventions contravenes the CLAIMS of any patented inventions worldwide, they will make you pay......... forever.

Therefore the next step is to investigate every patent you possibly can. I spent one month in the Brisbane patent office in 1995, (pre internet!) searching every possible connection to gearbox, then transmission, then power transmission, cvt, dct, ivt, etc etc. After all that I was sure my invention was "new, novel and involved an inventive step". I then hired a Patent Attorney, who approximately two days later handed me 100 other patents to look through. All had claims in one form or another that I had made. We had to work them all. That is the primary reason for getting a Patent Attorney. You may unfortunately find your inventions already out there in one form or another. But it is something you do have to know, as you just might end up paying a lawyer, not to make money, but to reduce the amount someone else wants you to pay them.

If you are confident of your inventions, patent them. Save yourself a lot of grief down the line. Also, the patent, or IP, (Intellectual Property), is a valuable asset in itself, very well worth owning. It gives YOU rights, (value?) over your property that YOU worked so hard for over so many years, (mine took 14yrs from idea, R&D, to patent), a value which is bankable!

And YES, it is a very enjoyable ride, addictive even. I have two more biggies I will be patenting, though, due to my injuries, it may take just a little longer to get there.

Do not listen to those who say otherwise; as in most cases, (not all!) patenting is very much worthwhile, especially if you require the funding to get to the market. Call your patent your insurance policy for your investors. They will need it.

I agree with that, one can not go through life of someone else's experience, only use that information for to assist if you need, because things change. And you may have to challenge when a wrong is committed or they will walk all over you.

They say for one to make an actual beneficial profit on an invention, that invention has to gross 20-40 million? And that was 20 years ago.

again good luck, and if thats not enough then prove us wrong that it can be done, at a profit, or at least set up a precedence.

phoenix911

2QWK2C

Thank you for your encouragement for that is what it has done. As you would have experienced over the last decade (same here) the whole process comes in waves, a bit like manic depression. One day all is up and running the next some little hindrance puts every thing at risk. Just to control the flow of information (Who is supposed to know what and when) is a full time job. Commitment and enthusiasm do run out of steam some times. And people are not always as honest as they make out.

Hearing about some one having success in the IP battle is truly good news and I hope the best for you and the "disruptive technology"(What a beautiful terminology) invention. In general I am not having a whinge about my personal situation. Things will be taken care of. All in their own time.

What is really upsetting is the dangers the un-initiated inventor can run in to. TV Shows like The Inventors give the impression of easy peasyness. All with a bit of fun and hand shakes. Its like watching lambs go to the slaughter house. All these shows seem to be commercials for the IP industry. Not that the big firms really need the small fry (back yarders) but they take them on the side. Inventors become delusional about what they have created and will not listen to reason or good advice. They are more like sick people that need good treatment and they will be "doctored" by the attorneys. I have been through the treatment and I paid for it in many ways, not only $$. I would not wish it on any one else and only I was to blame.

Inventors should study the in's and out's of the discipline of patenting, like reading your's and other available comments/documentation, will they be able to succeed.

You can not drive a car with out a license but can apply for a patent with out being warned and taught about the dangers of the "traffic".They must be told about this in no uncertain therms but the opposite is being practiced. The inventors disease (addiction as you so rightly put it) is not treated effectively and at a too high cost to the individual. I would go as far as to say the "disease" is pampered and not treated at all. Relating it to medicine it could be called a placebo. Nothing really in it but it seems to help.

Make the inventor believe they are being "cured" with a patent. The consequences, which ever way, are to be dealt with by the inventor in the end. Instruct the attorney what to do, should not be one of our responsibilities. At least in my case I have no such qualifications in the mine field of IP law. Even the best chess player will find his master and although I know the rules and the standard openings etc. I would not gamble on some thing I have no control over what so ever. Becoming an attorney my self is out of the question.

Your standard inventor will be at the mercy of the firm and their suggestions.

Unless supported by willing partners, who could take this part out of my hands, I would not attempt to apply for a patent ever again. You must know, I am a full blown multi disciplned artist and if that makes me not educated enough or to emotional to try and get a good idea to the market, so be it. At least I am using these inventions on a daily basis counting toward R+D and material testing I suppose. You should see me camouflaging them when we have visitors. No pre-publication or spies for me thank you very much.

Since the internet is at our hands, researching prior art has become more available to all including the IP industry. I remember my first patent application 30 or so years ago. In Germany. It was all by hand mail/meetings or phone. The attorneys were worth every dime and after hours drinks were on the house.

Now, with every information at their finger tips, they still charge like wounded bulls. I mean, if I can use a computer (beginner), what could be done by a trained person to find apposing patent or a standard technology transfer agreement or any information needed. Why the incredible cost? and you still have to do the work? Its the old Commie speaking now, forgive me.

As you have put it so well, there is more to an invention than creating a thingamabob that will sell millions, making lots of money and keeping all happy. An invention goes through an evolution and only the fittest survive and are Hits. Smash Hits.

You can be the best singer in the world but with out a team or friends and connections in every related industry you have no chance to succeed and create that smash hit. One can still sing at small parties. Was that the tenor of your reply?

I wish that your injuries heal much faster than you ever thought and have success with your "disruptive technology" (gosh I love it). That must have been a huge hurdle to take and admiration for succeeding with it from here.

This is what I had to invent to have Smash Hit for sure. Good humor hurts no one I suppose. Ky.

Ky, you nailed it! "the whole process comes in waves, a bit like manic depression.... In one year you may have 363 days of nothing and one or two days of absolute euphoria to keep you going for the next 363! That's how it seems to be - right.

Controlling information is simple, NO-ONE needs to know, except you. When you are ready, then you may tell your Patent Attorney. How to choose one? I do not know, I just got lucky. I investigated every one I could find in Brisbane and chose mine more on intuition than anything else.

Friends, well friends can be as dangerous as those you wish to hide your secrets from. After my accident, (lady runs a red light whilst day dreaming, foot flat to the floor!), we could not see our friends, because they were running so fast. We have no friends from post-accident.

"upsetting is the dangers the un-initiated inventor can run in to....."

75% of inventions come from the 'backyard' inventor, and until now they all ran into the same obstacles. ALL. My dad worked for the government in physics and engineering and designed NASA's first 'sky camera'. He got a letter from them for it. That's all. He also privately invented all sorts of things, and like you, thought the whole patenting process was a rip off. I was hoping to show him how wrong he was, but I had an accident then the idiot turned around and died on me!

The patenting process for me and my invention was, is and will always be an integral part of the inventing process. It has to be, for, not only me, but all inventors/innovators. We, the inventors/ innovators, have to make it work on a worldwide basis, for us, to give us and what we have done VALUE that can be realised in a universal format - $$$$$$$$$$$

Nobody will respect us or what we have done otherwise. We need to use the system, it is a world wide one, and make it work FOR US, because when it comes to it, it is ours, and was designed for us. No us, no Patent Attorneys, no system, no taxes for government! Simple huh.

I am personally insulted that a judge on a bad day may award me $1m for my 14+ years work, thousands of dollars spent, but at least I know, I have done the right thing all along, including using the patent process, and hopefully this may help others in designing their own futures with their inventions.

OH, big firms always need the small fry. All big firms are made up of small fry and small fry with innovation are highly sought after. But the small fry are obligated to sort themselves out on all levels so the big company is not left with a big headache and possible ruin due to one uninitiated small fry slipping up. It actually happens more than you might think.

Inventors become delusional about what they have created and will not listen to reason or good advice. They are more like sick people that need good treatment and they will be "doctored" by the attorneys.....

This is true, however most Patent Attorneys know, the more successful you are, the more they make. However it is up to the inventor to do their home work, and places like IP Australia are now a huge help in this area. As for you paying, I can really sympathise with that, the human race is made up of all sorts, even some Patent Attorneys.

You can not drive a car with out a license .....

Actually, I did, from 14, in the early 70's. I taught myself to drive from lessons my Dad gave my Mum when I was 6. I finally got a licence when I was 19 after I left the farming district. I also walked into the patenting process the same way, doing the same thing, learning as much as I could before committing. As I have said before, the amount of information out there for todays inventors is huge! In comparison to 1995, we had nothing! The whole process is much more transparent today and the communication lines worldwide an awesome addition to any inventor, backyard or not.

In 1995 I would never have known you existed, or the other great people on this forum, and because of this we are all learning new things about us, and our art, (that is what inventing is, and what does make our world go round because everything man made IS INVENTED). Hopefully more people will use the patenting system, strengthening it, forcing our respective governments to take harder lines on infringer's, whether they be single uninitiated abusers, (lots out there), companies big and small and of course countries and governments thereof. My real beef is with the countries governments as they control their Patent Offices. If a country will not regulate abusers of IP law, that country should be black listed until they show compliance.

Now you must remember all this has been set in place for us, the inventor. This is the whole point of Patenting. We have to use it and make it work, WORLDWIDE.

As you'll probably have guessed, I feel pretty strongly about this subject. It's simple really, over a hundred years to put in place, the patent process is not perfect... yet... the alternatives are rather scary and mostly promoted by individuals, companies, countries who know they can sucker cheap technology to bolster their bottom lines, defence industries, own pockets etc.

I have no such qualifications in the mine field of IP law.....

Neither did I, absolutely nothing! Search your available Patent Attorneys, worldwide. Do your homework on them. Most are really good people, just trying to make a living like you or I. Check your invention open mindedly. Is it new, novel and involves an inventive step. Is it industrially applicative? You have to ask yourself these questions and answer them honestly, as the only person you will be screwing is yourself. Another important question is - "is there anything like your invention already out there doing the same thing, the same way, or better?" You need a very honest answer to this one.

We must use our patenting process to protect us!

On all levels, including the naughty Patent Attorney level.

If you have had a bad experience, talk to the world about it, nice and loud! But above all else, make sure you stick to the facts. You will be shot down in flames otherwise, rightly or wrongly.

Your standard inventor will be at the mercy of the firm and their suggestions.

Your standard inventor knows his/her invention better than anyone else. Anyone trying to deliver anything else should be found out straight away. In my situation, I took an active role in the patenting process and came to realise the many pitfalls and trying times in my Attorneys attempts to make claims about my invention that did not infringe the inventions already out their. Even though the proffered art was totally dissimilar, the claims were most often identical, creating huge hurdles for my Attorney to navigate. He, I believe, was just as much an artist, as I was in creating the invention in the first place. Victor Argate, take your hat off, you were worth every cent.

information at their finger tips, they still charge like wounded bulls...

I am not sure about this in all cases but my Attorney worked for every cent. I do know though our government has upped charges big time. $200 per claim, after 20 claims. This is a huge increase that may cost inventors dearly and should be scrutinised more closely, after all we and our products do then get taxed many more times, right up until the end purchaser. Governments should be encouraging, and making the patenting process more attractive for us, not driving us away from it. Ultimately inventors can end up patenting in a more user friendly country, costing their original home a lot of lost income on all levels.

Ky, part of the inventing process is the acclaim and rewards you deserve at the end of it. Ultimately it is up to you to decide what these rewards are. For me it is lots of money to do more and better inventing and lots of acclaim. Why the acclaim, I do not know, but the money part is easy. Money, unfortunately, is the freedom of choice. No money, very little choice.

By the way, I lost my patent, so my disruptive technology will never make the market. Too much money is required to jump all the testing and safety hurdles to get it to market and without a patent no one in this whole wide world will give me one cent to get it there. It is that simple, no patent, no money. Even if I had the money spare, I would not attempt to get it to market, as the first unit off the production line would be copied, then spat out at a fraction of the cost thereby denying me of any chance of recouping my costs. That is the world of reality.

This is why the world Patenting system is so important to all inventors, big, small, wide, shallow. It is ours and we MUST make it work. Those who say differently must have a different agenda and it may not be all above board!

Very dedicated and inspiring. Thank you. Ky

2QWK2C

Those who say differently must have a different agenda and it may not be all above board!

I only found more time now, so let me ask a question. In the above, are you referring to people that are knowingly ripping and distorting the patent system?

Un-willingly I was one myself, by suggesting to "just go ahead and do the deed". In hind site I should have been a bit more careful. You have reminded me that people could have a patent (prior art) and could sew you and your manufacturers out of the water, so to say. Not having done the search, one can never know if an infringement has or is taking place. It was very important that you reminded me of that.

In my defence I have had a mentor who has the ability to search with an engine/program that can bring up incredible connections. Here too the wording counts. This was done pro bono, so no certification. It has given me peace of mind that nothing came up and this initiated final proto typing. I didn't think any one had thought of it, but one never knows.

Further to my defence I argue that if some one would have created just the same then it should be on the market. Inventing comes from the need to better something and like I said, I am using mine on a daily basis. I am completely honest about wanting to serve the potential user and sell him the article/service. It will make life easier for them or have what ever kind of advantage.

If it is not on the market there is either no need for it or it hasn't been invented. That is my kind of logic, although since you reminded me of the pit falls of this way of thinking I will reconsider.

You seem to be happy with the services of your Attorney and so was I with mine (I just couldn't handle the bills and the escalating cost of going all the way.) This is all many years ago and I should get that chip off my shoulder and try again. The products are unique enough, so what the heck.

We seem to live in the same state so if you would like to give me your attorneys contacts I would have a good think about it. Its not much different to me asking you for a good dentist, the one that made you feel comfortable and relaxed. Send it to my private email @CR4 if you wish to keep this confidential.

Hope your case is handled by a semi drunk and Australian loving Judge. Ya never know. Good Luck. Ky.

Ky, I was not referring to you personally, more about those who make it their business ripping others off knowingly. The more visible cases are movies, music, designer clothing,accessories etc. All these artists lose millions out of their incomes which is pretty unfair. Sadly, they are just like us, though with less protection as most things we do become quite visible, whereas a ripped off pair of designer sun glasses walking right past you and the police station are 99.99999% of the time, totally missed.

You are so lucky to have a mentor, I would imagine alot of us others would love one of them!

The firm I dealt with was Fisher, Adams Kelly, in Brisbane. Victor no longer works for them, he moved to Melbourne, but the firm is quite good. Well.... it was ten years ago. Ask for Mark Horsburgh, (I think that's spelt right). Warning, try your best to keep your claims down, or lump them together and after your application sort them out. There are pros and cons to doing it this way, more pros I believe, but you'll have to ask the experts.

Judges, I really really really just hope for a fair judgement. That's all.

I wish you all the luck with all your endeavours, and one thing I did learn was luck, or even lack of it, plays a huge part in our business. I sincerely hope all the good stuff is heading your way.

Thank you. I think I dealt fish Fisher way back then when he was with Cullen's. I'll try them when I'm ready. In the end I think an innovation Patent would do just fine. It only lasts for 8 years but that is a long enough harvest time. See what happens and thank you for your help. Ky.

In response to 2qwk2c,

• Thanks for the encouragement to all of the individual Inventors and people who might be sitting on the fence when it comes to a patent .etc. Remember that your claim to fame can be started in simple inexpensive steps if you are a small guy and you just want to get your feet wet and protect IP or Tangible assets by simply Postmarking: (mailing,Dwg.'S/.Doc's/Recorded Mat'l.) to yourself via the U.S. postal system which now becomes a Legal Post & dated Document and by the way, is proof in a court. In addition to the Applied for status as you mentioned earlier. Like you said,
• Dont worry your sweat and aspiration away -Just Do It!

Hi Guest,

A couple of points;

1/ My referral to patenting was to the broader community. You see, in my experience there are not only individuals who sit on the fence when it comes to patenting, but companies big and small. Most do not recognise the gold mines they are sitting on. Some hum and hah about costs, time and too much trouble etc, until it is too late and their hard work is usually, unintentionally published or what ever.

I know a few farmers and small companies who came up with great time and energy saving systems/devices and kicked themselves stupid when they realised what they had missed out on. One guy designed his own eletric fence running off a car battery and coil in the very early seventies and decided it was too much trouble and expensive to bother with patenting.????

2/ Guest, you must remember that this is an international forum. Many countries do not have the same sensible self posting system as you do in the US. In some places it applies to different formats of IP. For instance I do know for music here in Australia you can do that, however I am not so sure about patentable material and one could find it rather expensive trying a matter like this in a court of law if there is no precedence. Asian and European countries may do things differently also.

I do wish though, it was that simple here, it would make me feel much better about the stuff I am working on now.

Thought inspiring comment though, I'll have to talk to my legals about this one.

Cheers

A good friend obvious thinks it does. His patents on a compact electric generator and a couple of other items are being given serious consideration by some very important people.