The Engineer's Notebook Blog

The Engineer's Notebook

The Engineer's Notebook is a shared blog for entries that don't fit into a specific CR4 blog. Topics may range from grammar to physics and could be research or or an individual's thoughts - like you'd jot down in a well-used notebook.

Previous in Blog: Bravo for British Telecom!   Next in Blog: Forensics: Junk Science or Reliable Means of Conviction?
Close
Close
Close
30 comments
Rate Comments: Nested

Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

Posted September 04, 2008 9:51 AM by Milo

One of the great tools that we have as engineers is the robust (Latin: robustus oaken) vocabulary (Latin: vocabularium, verbal) of technical (from Greek technikos of art, skillful, from technē art, craft, skill; akin Latin texere to weave) terms (Latin terminus term, expression) that was already prepared for us. And a modular (Latin modulatus, pp.of modulari, to regulate, measure off) way of constructing (Latin constructus, past participle of construere, from com- + struere to build ) new terms using relevant prefixes, roots, and suffixes.

Quick, describe a circle- the parts of a circle- Circumference (derived from the Latin word for around) comes to mind quickly. Circumnavigate, If you know what navigate means, (Latin navigatus, past participle of navigare, from navis ship + -igare (from agere to drive)) the circum part tells you instantly that you are taking the ship or sailing around something …

Diameter- via Latin from the Greek diametros, dia through, metron measure. Semicircle Semi is Latin word for half… Bi as in bicycle means two…

Here are some building blocks we use daily and think they are English: inter (between); interlaced means laced between; intra (within) as in intradepartmental squabbling. Sub is Latin for under, while super or supra are Latin terms for over, extra or above, I'd like the supra double dip ice cream cone please…

Trans originally meant across in Latin, and its role in transport needs no explanation (L explanatio < pp. of explanare ) to the readers here at CR4.

Ultra meant "beyond" to the Romans, and today many products claim to be ultra- this or ultra that. Julius Caesar's engineers would understand the product claim, even if they couldn't figure out how the TV works.

Manual tools, manual work, product manuals, manual adjustments- these all descend from Latin manualis, from manus hand.

Multi meant many to the Romans (Latin multiplex, from multi- + -plex –fold), and multiple spindle machines, multiplex signals are rooted in this many thousands of year s old language.

Terrestrial we use it same as the ancients did- from Latin terrestris, from terra earth. Maritime and aqua are Latin words that play an important party in or technical language today. Maritime(Latin maritimus, from mare Sea) and aquatic from L aquaticus < aqua, water.

Is Latin a dead language? Absolutely (Latin absolutus, from past participle of absolvere to set free, absolve) not (from Latin non)!

- By milo (from militaris, from milit-, miles soldier)

Reply

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sebring, Florida
Posts: 923
Good Answers: 25
#1

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/04/2008 3:58 PM

Why Hello Milo, It is good to hear from you,

I sent Moose a little post and of course copied you. I find your efforts at creating an interesting little "da-ly use dictionary" concerning the multiple uses of cute little words to be both educational and "hu-mor-us". Thanks for that little "tid bit" of wisdom.

I am pleased to report to you that we are making real progress that is being supported by actual proof of performance with increases in fuel mileage on eight over the road semi trucks, and just as soon as I put the finishing touches on multiple electrode assemblies that will all be exact copies of each other, and of course intended to eliminate the undesirable problems that we have been able to discover through analizing our and other's efforts. We of course recognize that Science demands that this matter regarding stated performance be verified by independant sources, so we will be making our findings available when we have secured the perfected data.

I'll keep "you-all" posted

Toomuchfun

__________________
The only problem with common sense, is that not very many people have it, or know how or when to use it.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sebring, Florida
Posts: 923
Good Answers: 25
#2

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/04/2008 4:04 PM

Where can I get one of those "ice cream cones" and can I choose multi-ple flavors.

Tmf

__________________
The only problem with common sense, is that not very many people have it, or know how or when to use it.
Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: "Dancing over the abyss."
Posts: 4884
Good Answers: 243
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/04/2008 4:23 PM

Why my Domicile ( Latin domicilium, from Domus, Home) of course The flavors will follow the milo inventory rule: "If it's in stock, we have it." Our policy is that You can have it if its in stock, until its all gone; then you can't.- milo

__________________
People say between two opposed opinions the truth lies in the middle. Not at all! Between them lies the problem, what is unseeable,eternally active life, contemplated in repose. Goethe
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sebring, Florida
Posts: 923
Good Answers: 25
#12
In reply to #4

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/05/2008 1:31 PM

It seems that your inventory policy "that is in stock , out of stock" seems to fall a little short, "as in old stock, short of stock, and lets not forget stock on order, and back ordered stock and most important of all deleted stock.

Does this remind you of the definition of the word Quan-tum.

Maybe what you say isn't what you mean to say or what you expect me to think you are saying. SAY WHAT!!!!

Tmf

__________________
The only problem with common sense, is that not very many people have it, or know how or when to use it.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: "Dancing over the abyss."
Posts: 4884
Good Answers: 243
#15
In reply to #12

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/05/2008 2:46 PM

TMF, the most important inventory status can be determined by remembering the term FISH. Not FIFO (first in first out) nor Lifo, (Last in First out) but FISH- First In Still Here It smells!

milo

__________________
People say between two opposed opinions the truth lies in the middle. Not at all! Between them lies the problem, what is unseeable,eternally active life, contemplated in repose. Goethe
Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - Organizer Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2969
Good Answers: 33
#3

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/04/2008 4:16 PM

This brings back fond memories of Latin class, Milo! Thanks for posting this in The Y Files.

- Moose

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sebring, Florida
Posts: 923
Good Answers: 25
#13
In reply to #3

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/05/2008 1:44 PM

Hello Moose,

MY MOTHER MADE ME DO IT!

It was the ninth grade and mom determined that if I was to ever be successful in life I would have to take and pass Latin. I hated the course with a passion. And when I realized that the language was dead as the Cyclops, I hated it even more. I remember the text book well, Latin and the Romans! I cheerfully began forgetting all that I knew about Latin the very next year when I began Spanish I. The Romans had problems with their spelling and the Spanish didn't seem th know how to put their words in the correct order.

TMF

__________________
The only problem with common sense, is that not very many people have it, or know how or when to use it.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sebring, Florida
Posts: 923
Good Answers: 25
#22
In reply to #3

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/06/2008 3:39 PM

Hello Moose/Milo and others,

It brings back a fond memory to me also. "It was back in the mid seventies, when the trumped up gas shortage was dropped on us and most of the nation was plunged into depression as the result."

Here in sunny booming Florida there was no work available for those plying a living from the construction industry. After a two years of struggling I found work in Texas. "I was in route back to Florida for a visit with my family, and traveling with a caravan of others that just grouped themselves together through our CB connections, as we chirped along amusing ourselves. We were traveling across the elevated roadway that traveled through the area that is now a part of Lake Ponchatrain. We never imagined there would be such a long way across and we were all nearly" out gased," and burning up the airway looking for a way off this parkway to find some gas. It was just after 12:45 AM when a funny sounding voice spoke out in broken english, made a remark about a near by mile marker and said that the next exit beyond was not much farther than that, and stated that we needed to turn right and go 2 miles and turn right again, and we would see a gasoline refill at the local country store. (this was near Slydel, La.). Quantum relief and whole sale jibbering across the CB channel 19 enveloped that portion of the parkway.

After paying for my gas before I was to gas up, I asked the young man at the register just how far, in hours, was it the Florida State line. He answered me in some strange language that reminded me of my ninth grade Latin course. I politely thanked him wander on out to fill up my gas tank. A kindly looking elderly black fellow, was getting" regassed "at the pump next to me. We were all tired. As he was standing beside me when I paid for the gas, I was sure that he must have heard my question to the young man at the register. I asked him what the young man had said as I didn't understand his language. The elderly man replied that he had been living around that part of Louisiana for most of his life, and never really understood those folks. I could hardly understand the elderly fellow as he spoke a language that seemed to be a combination of Spanish, French, maybe some native American, a little of the Kings English, smothered with a generous helping of Dixie. I was able to determine that he was saying something about the Cajuns and a Byou and that he never could understand much of what they said either. I determined then an there that I was just as well off not being able to speak Cajun as Latin, because nobody would be able understand me either.

TMF

__________________
The only problem with common sense, is that not very many people have it, or know how or when to use it.
Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#23
In reply to #22

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/06/2008 3:46 PM

Yeah, Cajun is a language unto itself. Now I done tol' you dat, an' you gon' haveta know what I meant.

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: "Dancing over the abyss."
Posts: 4884
Good Answers: 243
#25
In reply to #23

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/06/2008 4:26 PM

Heres a couple of fun links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN0H5ZgYL8k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcPvOc-2Tbk

My neighbor was from their and he had a version of this that would leave us rolling with laughter...

Nice new Avatar by da way.

milo

__________________
People say between two opposed opinions the truth lies in the middle. Not at all! Between them lies the problem, what is unseeable,eternally active life, contemplated in repose. Goethe
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#29
In reply to #25

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/08/2008 10:56 AM

Thanks - I just have to remember where the oilcan is kept!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - Scapolie, new member.

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1058
Good Answers: 8
#5

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/05/2008 4:30 AM

Hi Milo,

"Ne te confundant illegitimi"

Spencer.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: "Dancing over the abyss."
Posts: 4884
Good Answers: 243
#7
In reply to #5

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/05/2008 7:36 AM

Hi Scapolie!

I hadn't seen the confundant version of this quote. Very cool.

As it turns out illigitimi is'nt the right word... we'll have to change our plaque!

The Latin word for bastard is actually nothus (from the Greek word notho (νόθο) meaning not-pure (used when referring to a bastard whose father is known) or spurius (for a bastard whose father is unknown).

My last boss had the "illigitimi non carborundum" phrase engraved and on his desk like a nameplate!

This version won't get points off from your Latin teacher:

Noli nothis permittere te terere.

But its meaning is much harder to fathom than the illigitimi version.

Thanks for the reply.

milo

__________________
People say between two opposed opinions the truth lies in the middle. Not at all! Between them lies the problem, what is unseeable,eternally active life, contemplated in repose. Goethe
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - Scapolie, new member.

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1058
Good Answers: 8
#27
In reply to #7

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/08/2008 4:44 AM

Hi Milo, Here is my family motto;- "Fortiter et celeriter"

This has been our motto since before the battle of Agincourt.

Spencer.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: "Dancing over the abyss."
Posts: 4884
Good Answers: 243
#28
In reply to #27

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/08/2008 8:15 AM

Braver and faster? Thats cool.

milo

__________________
People say between two opposed opinions the truth lies in the middle. Not at all! Between them lies the problem, what is unseeable,eternally active life, contemplated in repose. Goethe
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#6

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/05/2008 6:26 AM

This is a good observation, and also valid for Medicine as well for Pharmacy.

Jungle Boy

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Active Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 24
#8

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/05/2008 9:10 AM

Milo,

I was wondering if you knew the origin of the "pidgin Latin" phrase "Illigitimis non carborundum"? I turns out that General "Vinegar" Joe" Stillwell borrowed it from some British radio operators during WWII, and used is as his personal motto. At least that is the story I was given.

By the way, I am curious as to the origin of the avatar you use in your postings. I can't quite make it out, but it looks interesting. Can you give a reference so I can get a better look?

I'm just off to a training course next week, so I may not see your response in case you answer later than this afternoon.

Regards,

Ron

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: "Dancing over the abyss."
Posts: 4884
Good Answers: 243
#10
In reply to #8

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/05/2008 1:09 PM

Wikipedia says they got it from British Intelligence and thats where you pal vinegar joe stillwell got it.

I wonder if vinegar joe got his vinegar habit from the swamp fox, who was known to have a bit of vinegar in his canteen supposedly for scurvy preventive.

My avatar? I started a thread on avatars, Having not seen the prior ones, and the story behind mine is here:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/21785

Good luck with the training!

milo

__________________
People say between two opposed opinions the truth lies in the middle. Not at all! Between them lies the problem, what is unseeable,eternally active life, contemplated in repose. Goethe
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#9

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/05/2008 12:46 PM

An interesting exercise in taxonomy (Latin: taxon, name)! We biologists have to learn sufficient Latin (and some Greek) to study taxonomy (the naming of flora [Latin: plants] and fauna [Latin: animals]). Plus anatomical structures of both.

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: "Dancing over the abyss."
Posts: 4884
Good Answers: 243
#11
In reply to #9

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/05/2008 1:15 PM

Biologists would be hard pressed to work with out Latin and Greek.

one of the funny ones I heard of that vein was the canary islands. It sounds like thats where there are canaries, right? Supposedly they are named for the dogs Canis found there...

milo

__________________
People say between two opposed opinions the truth lies in the middle. Not at all! Between them lies the problem, what is unseeable,eternally active life, contemplated in repose. Goethe
Reply
Power-User
Hobbies - Musician - guitar fan Greece - Member - Engineering Fields - Software Engineering -

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 256
Good Answers: 18
#26
In reply to #9

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/08/2008 3:21 AM

An interesting exercise in taxonomy (Latin: taxon, name)!

Actually, taxonomy is Greek (taxis: order, nomos:law). So taxonomy means "method of ordering".

Generally, medical/anatomical terminology is mainly of Greek origin, while scientific plant and animal names are mostly Latin. Engineering terminology is less Greek or Latin, however, we use in on everyday practice words like, electrism, architecture, topography, geology, dynamic, analysis, synthesis, static, problem, ... and the list goes on.

Also stems like hydro-, meta-, para-, kata- anti-, apo- or suffixes -ic, -logy, -graphy, are very frequently used in engineering (and not only)

You can check these sites too:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/petridis/wordsgr.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_and_Greek_words_commonly_used_in_systematic_names

Check also two speeches made in a whimsical mood back in 1957 and 1959 by Xenophon Zolotas, a prominent Greek economist, addressing the International Monetary Fund ("Panethnic Numismatic Thesaurus" as he calls it!) . It's not exactly English or Greek, but it's fun reading!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophon_Zolotas

__________________
tkot
Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#30
In reply to #26

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/08/2008 11:00 AM

Well, hush my mouth - it's all Greek to me!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Active Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 24
#14

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/05/2008 1:49 PM

Thanks Milo.

It's a great picture. I love it. If you don't mind, I saved it and will keep it for a bit of inspiration from time to time. I especially like your explanation. Not that many people appreciate what the "man behind the curtain" is actually doing.

My children are grown, but it reminds me of my daughter at play. I was never more relaxed and calm as when I was watching her just being herself.

Ron

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: "Dancing over the abyss."
Posts: 4884
Good Answers: 243
#16
In reply to #14

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/05/2008 2:51 PM

enjoy!

"Not that many people appreciate what the "man behind the curtain" is actually doing."

Or who it is we really serve.

milo

__________________
People say between two opposed opinions the truth lies in the middle. Not at all! Between them lies the problem, what is unseeable,eternally active life, contemplated in repose. Goethe
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member Fans of Old Computers - TRS-80 - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 1331
Good Answers: 30
#17

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/05/2008 5:19 PM

Hillbilly Latin: "...et tu, Brutus?"...to which Brutus replies: "...nope, I only et wun!"

__________________
...and the Devil said: "...yes, but it's a DRY heat..!"
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#18

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/06/2008 1:03 PM

I didn't do Latin

Del the felis domesticus

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sebring, Florida
Posts: 923
Good Answers: 25
#19
In reply to #18

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/06/2008 1:37 PM

It seems that most of the Ancients didn't "do Latin" very well either. They are now speaking Italian, Spanish , Portuguese, French, and various dialects of the Kings English. Moreover, the remainder of that neighborhood speak one or more versions of the Arabic varieties. The real Latins seem all to have been buried beneath volcanic ash or drowned at sea, or maybe were eaten by cyclops' or other hungry creatures. No matter what became of them they are all as dead as their language. Is there any wonder that the vast majority if the world population cannot under stand scientists and some engineers and Doctors, they "speek like spooks" from the grave yard. Seems as tho there must have been some "Mystic order of House Cats"! What ever happened to them? By the way, I am highly allergic to "Cat Dander".

TMF

__________________
The only problem with common sense, is that not very many people have it, or know how or when to use it.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#21
In reply to #19

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/06/2008 2:55 PM

"By the way, I am highly allergic to "Cat Dander"."

How about cat dancing? Gotta love that, right?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070363/

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sebring, Florida
Posts: 923
Good Answers: 25
#24
In reply to #21

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/06/2008 4:00 PM

I have one of those "CAT DANCINGS", 15 yrs younger than I am, anytime I feel like playing a tune for her, she is ready to dance!

"GOTTA LOVE THAT RIGHT"! You better believe it. When ever I would drag home a stray cat my Grand mom would remind me that I would never own a CAT, "CATS OWN PEOPLE"!!! It seems like I may have studdied something about that in "Latin and the Romans" too.

TMF

__________________
The only problem with common sense, is that not very many people have it, or know how or when to use it.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sebring, Florida
Posts: 923
Good Answers: 25
#20
In reply to #18

Re: Why Latin (and Greek) Is Really an Engineering Course

09/06/2008 1:51 PM

There was clearly a "Quantum failure of a meeting of the minds" between our Latin Teacher and most of my classmates. The vast majority were graded with EEEE's and FFFF's for the Latin experience. However they all seemed to do well dancing the mashed potatoes, hand jive, the twist, the locomotion, stroll, monkey and especially the "Monster Mash"!


Tmf

__________________
The only problem with common sense, is that not very many people have it, or know how or when to use it.
Reply
Reply to Blog Entry 30 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

70AARCuda (1); Anonymous Poster (1); EnviroMan (5); Milo (8); Ronz (2); Scapolie (2); Steve Melito (1); tkot (1); Toomuchfun (8); user-deleted-1105 (1)

Previous in Blog: Bravo for British Telecom!   Next in Blog: Forensics: Junk Science or Reliable Means of Conviction?

Advertisement