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Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

Posted February 17, 2009 11:46 AM by amichelen

Last night I attended a conference by animal advocate Gene Baur. Gene is the author of the best seller book Farm Sanctuary: Changing Hearts and Minds about Animals and food, and the president and co-founder of Farm Sanctuary an organization dedicated to the protection of farm animals. This organization runs also the largest rescue and refuge network for farm animal in North America.

The main topic of the conference was to instill in our minds the disgusting practices of our big (and sometimes small) factory animal farms who terrorise, torture, massacre, and keep in the most abject conditions the animals that serve as food in our daily live.

Farm animals are not only extremely mistreated, but among other things, are genetically manipulated, excluded from the Federal Animal Welfare Act and agricultural practices are excluded from most anti-cruelty laws.

In a typical animal (factory) farm the animals are most of their time subjected a continuous confinements and torture such as:

  • Gestation Crates. This is medieval torture chamber where the sow pigs are forced to breed continuously. To achieve maximum benefits the pigs are kept most of their lives in the crates "2-foot-wide metal enclosures that severely restrict the animals' movement and thwart their natural behaviors." Take a look:

  • Battery Cages. Here our farmers keep egg-laying hens for most of their life (yes, most of their lives) in cages the size of sheet of paper (8-1/2'' by 11''). The hens can barely move and cannot walk or even stretch their wings. Besides torturing these (more than a billion) egg-laying hens, we also kill over 9 billion chicken a year. When the hens and the chicken are not good for producing eggs or meat, our farmers pass them through a wood chipper. Take a look:

  • Veal Crates. The veal calves (they ae killed when they are babies to satisfy our crave for Veal Cacchiatori or Veal Parmigiana) are kept for their ENTIRE LIVES in a 2-foot wide cages. "Usually chained by their necks to the front of the stall, these animals cannot even turn around, stretch their limbs, or lie down comfortably". Take a look:

and another look:

Farm animals have sensitivity, social life, intelligence, fill pain just like we do, they like freedom of movement just like we do, they appreciate and enjoy petting.

Thinks about this next time you try a big hamburger.

Abe

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#1

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/17/2009 3:01 PM

Ok, that's enough. I've sat back and watched in horror while you vego-terrorists have slowly filled CR4 with your propraganda. Lets get some context to this discussion.

Humans are by nature Omnivores. It means we eat both animals and plants. It took us 10s of millions of years to evolve that way. You can't just remove half our naturally evolved diet and expect no adverse side effects. It's unnatural. And please don't quote me health studies ok, don't forget we bled people to cure them for 200 years before we realized it was a bad idea. Science isn't perfect.

Humans have canine teeth. God or Nature (through evolution), whomever you choose to believe created us, gave us canines for a reason, and that reason is for tearing flesh, not for grinding plants.

Animals will kill you in a second, without a second thought and without remorse. The only reason dogs are loyal is because we feed them. Try starving your dog and see how long it takes before he starts to view you as dinner.

Here's my point, can we devolop more humane ways to treat animals? Absolutely. In fact this is already starting to happen. See the link below:

http://www.metafilter.com/38542/Autism-amp-Animal-Behavior

But that doesn't mean we should stop eating meat, or god help me, cheeseburgers.

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/17/2009 4:44 PM

So where do carnivores stop? Dolphins? Chimps? Soylent Green?

(Steve do like cheeseburgers btw. Just sayin.)

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/17/2009 10:41 PM

Carnivores stop when they're full.

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/18/2009 6:43 AM

ROTFL

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#32
In reply to #5

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/19/2009 10:45 AM

And if God's a chicken, we're all screwed.

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#34
In reply to #32

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/19/2009 10:58 AM

At least that would explain why everything tastes like chicken.

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#38
In reply to #1

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

06/04/2009 9:10 PM

great reply! some bleeding heart idiots go too far: like the fools that kill abortion doctors because they are against murder, HYPOCRISY STINKS

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#2

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/17/2009 3:02 PM

Let me state this as clearly and as plainly as I can. I in no way support or condone the cruelty that is rife within the US factory farming system...

...but is there a functional alternative method that could be used to effectively supply food to the 300 million mouths in the US (let alone 6 billion worldwide) without significantly raising the price of food? Sustainable farming is great, but it is incredibly labor intensive and cannot be used in any practical sense to feed urban populations.

In the end, no matter how many of us (myself included) try to eat local foods, grow our own, eat less, waste as little as possible, etc., we are stuck with factory farming as the only really practical way to feed so many mouths. Most of us simply don't have the time or the land to functionally feed our families and successfully engage in our normal vocations.

I'm curious, did Gene Baur offer any alternatives?
Is he really interested in reforming the the way livestock is raised for food, or is his conclusion that everyone should go vegan?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/17/2009 3:47 PM

I agree. Do what you can in your life and be happy with that; you can't change everyone in the world.

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#11
In reply to #2

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/18/2009 8:18 AM

Yes, sustainable farming is labor intensive, but what about all of the people on the welfare rolls? I tired of hearing that just because its not the exact job that they want to do, that people stay on welfare. When I was young and just out of college, I could not get a job in my field, so I took a job to pay the bills and put food on the table. In matter of fact, during the summer and early fall, I used to pick veggies and fruit to supplement my income and pantry? So, all of these people who say they are serious about getting off welfare need to put their words into actions.

Sorry, about the rant, but just offering a partial solution two two problems.

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/18/2009 8:29 AM

It's a pleasant though to take the welfare recipients and put them to work in labor intensive industries. But a lot of those industries already exist and instead of getting the folks on welfare doing the work we have a lot of folks from Mexico and other countries coming to do the work. It would seem that reality has already proven your theory impossible. Too bad. It's a good idea.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/18/2009 8:42 AM

I have heard the comment (cannot remember where off hand) that why should I do that kind of work when an immigrant is willing to do it. Since the majority of the immigrants working in those labor intensive industries are illegal (Just look at the news in recent months) it is cheap to hire them (no health care, no 401K). I know this is an impossible scenario but if all of the illegal immigrants were sent back, there would be plenty of jobs available. This is already happening due to the economy, where Mexicans are returning home because businesses are closing and they cannot survive here (Maybe this is a government plot to send the immigrants back. Is there any conspiracy theorist that want to take this up.).I am all for immigrants coming to the US, but have them do it legally.

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/18/2009 9:18 AM

Look, you can pay illegal immigrants lower than the minimum wage, that's why they have those jobs. And illegal immigrants are leaving because those jobs are gone, so it's not like American citizens can now move in.

What you don't realize is that you're insulting me and many others with your ignorance. My mother grew up on welfare. You have no idea the sacrifices she had to make in order to give me the opportunity to get ahead. You have no idea what social stratification is and how it hinders the poor from making something of themselves. You don't understand and so you take your limited understanding and make broad insulting statements. Stick to things you know.

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/18/2009 9:41 AM

Obviously, your mother utilized the welfare system correctly as it was intended. My comment was not meant to insult the people who have made the sacrifices to get where they are now. By the way, I was a hearing person who grew up in a totally deaf house. At least you had all of your facilities, unlike my parents who were marginalized by society due to having a handicap. In matter of fact, my dad (who is now 78 years old) has refused to get a handicap sticker/licence plate when he was told he was eligible. For a while my dad was denied work (he is a trained architectural engineer) in his field of study for a long time. He was also discriminated against in pay and positions. He was finally fortunate to find work with people that understood his handicap was not a limitation. The people you should take issue with are the people who abuse the welfare system and blame others for the bad decisions that they have made. They are the ones who give welfare the stigmata that it has today. By the way, in college I was "forced" to take a sociology class where I had to do a project on the welfare system. I was pleased to see that some people took advantage of the programs that were offered and were able to pull themselves up (these people were few and far between) while the majority were just happy to remain on welfare (Interviewing one person, stated that why work when she gets a free check). I am a firm believer of you are what you make of yourself. So, congratulations that you have reached where you are now.

The welfare system in this country does have a tendency to keep people in welfare but there are programs that if taken advantage of, can pull people from the cycle.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/18/2009 9:56 AM

My mother didn't utilize anything. She was a child, it was her single mother with 5 kids who used it when she had to. My mother has avoided welfare her entire adult life because it's a humiliating experience with a terrible stigma associated with it because of nice people like you. You just will never understand. Never.

Of course you didn't mean to insult people. You're not an evil person, you just don't know what your talking about.

And now you want to tell me about your deaf parents. How is that relevant to our discussion on welfare? Because you're parents overcame prejudice it gives you the right to determine what is and isn't prejudice when it comes to welfare?

You congratulate me? I don't want your congratulations. I only want the congratulations of my parents who sacrificed and had to put up with obnoxious people like you as they struggled to make a better life for myself and my sisters.

It isn't the welfare system in this country that keeps people down. It's $5000 dollars minimum a year for college. It's not being able to get a job with benefits if you don't have a bachelors. It's trying to survive on 10,000 dollars a year for 5 years in order to get a PhD.

You don't know what your talking about and you need to realize it and change.

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/18/2009 10:40 AM

I beg to differ with you on a couple of comments.

I do know what it is like to be on welfare. While in the Navy, due to my pay being so low for the rating that I was assigned (Nuclear Reactor Operator, by the way is a 6 figure job in the civilian sector) I had to go on welfare so my wife and kids could eat and stay in the apartment that we were living in. Before you start commenting about that I got free health care and a housing allowance, it was not enough. While I was out to sea on one of the many deployments that my family endured, my wife was in the checkout line in the supermarket paying for groceries with food stamps, a woman in a fur coat behind here made a snide remark to my wife about being on welfare. When my wife responded that the reason that she could have her fur coat and drive her Mercedes due to the sacrifice of many people so that she could live in a country that allows her to have those nice things. My wife never told me about this until I arrived back home. She described her feelings of humiliation and anger that people just make assumption. The comments I have made are not made from blind assumptions but from my (I repeat my) experiences.

My Mom and Dad also had to make sacrifices to give me clothes on my back and shoes on my feet. They did not go on welfare, though being handicap would have allowed them to.

As the right to determine what is prejudice, I feel that I have more of a right to make a judgement on prejudice, because I feel having a handicap and being on welfare are very similar. On the other hand it seems that you were never on welfare (I could not determine this from your writings, sorry if I missed it) so you have an indirect view of it.

By the way, you can get a job with benefits if you do not have a bachelors degree. The shipyard that I worked at, the tradespeople were often paid better and had more benefits than the degreed people.

I do agree with you that the cost of higher education is out of control. But in our society, it seems that when paying for high education, the more prestigious the school, the more money one needs to dish out (example: $45,000/yr for Harvard).

As for the comment about being obnoxious, I resent that. I try to give back to the community whenever possible. For some examples, my family volunteers at a soup kitchen every Thanksgiving, My daughter who was born on Veteran's Day and I every Veteran's Day, volunteer at the local VA hospital. We donate money to the Boy's and Girls Club near our home and also I volunteer as a tutor there.

I try to teach my children that there are people who are less fortunate than we are and they need help.

As for you making 10000 dollars a year for 5 years in order to get a PhD, that is a decision that you made, not the fault of the system.

As I have previously stated, the comments that I have made were based upon my life experiences. I never stated that I was right or wrong. Hence these comments are my opinion.

I do believe the quote is "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one"

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#23
In reply to #20

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/18/2009 11:08 AM

You make blanket statements about people on welfare characterizing them as lazy. You can twist it anyway you want after the fact, but that is what you said. Here's what you said in your original post:

"but what about all of the people on the welfare rolls? I tired of hearing that just because its not the exact job that they want to do, that people stay on welfare."

You write these long responses to me how tough your life was, as if that somehow justifies making blanket statements about those on welfare. You say that everyone is entitled to an opinion, as if that makes it ok for you to speak with ignorance.

You went on welfare, was it because you were too lazy to do work you felt was beneath you?

I'm sick of you "holier than thou" people who tell the poor to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and then write super long posts complaining how tough their own lives were and what a hero they are because they made it. You act as if I care what you had to go through. You think because I don't post my life story I didn't have to struggle?

The point is you made a general sweeping statement about people on welfare. Half my family was on welfare at one time or another and they are good people. So basically you're insulting my mother's side of my family with your uninformed,prejudiced, ignorant comments. So save your whining and explanations and just stop generalizing about things you don't know about because no matter what you say or how many whiny stories about your struggles you tell, we both know you don't know what your talking about.

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#25
In reply to #23

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/18/2009 12:09 PM

Funny, I don't remember complaining about my life. In retrospect, I think if I died today, and was asked, I have lived a pretty good life and would do some of the same things over (Obviously, hindsight is 20/20). I wrote about my experience as an example, not to whine. Not everything is taught in books.

You complain that college is too expensive. Guess what, ask some of your students, and they will have the same complaint. I said the same thing back in the '80, and it is still true today. Beating the dead horse.

You stated that you lived for 5 years on $10,000/yr while getting a PhD. That is a personal decision that you made. Nobody but you made that decision. What is even stranger, is that you work in a university setting. The same institution that you stated a complaint about. Maybe you should work to rectify the low pay of Research/Teaching Assistants at your school, then maybe take it nationally (unionize the Assistants?). (After talking to people at work here, they stated that $5000 a year is a bargain for an engineering school.)

To me, this actually sounds like whining. If you feel that anytime some makes a statement that you have an opinion about as an insult, you will have a long life of being angry. Since you have resorted to insulting me when I was presenting my views based upon my personal experience, I will stop responding to this thread. I'm sorry that some of my comments have "insulted" you but will not retract or go back on my views. I hope you use the energy that you have used to "attack" me to teach your students that open, honest communication is a treasure that we have in the US.

Yes the constitution of the United States, does allow me to have an opinion. Maybe you should re-read sometime, so few citizens of the United States have and should.

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/18/2009 12:32 PM

No, what I actually said was:

"It isn't the welfare system in this country that keeps people down. It's $5000 dollars minimum a year for college. It's not being able to get a job with benefits if you don't have a bachelors. It's trying to survive on 10,000 dollars a year for 5 years in order to get a PhD."

No where do I say that I am a professor or that I don't have a bachelors or that I went to grad school and was paid 10,000 dollars a year. You just assumed that.

I love when people like yourself complain about being "attacked". You made a blanket statement about people on welfare being lazy on a thread about vegetarians (why even bring it up?). We all say stupid things, but your holding on to you're bigoted opinion like its a flag. So be it. You don't want to respond to this, I think that's for the best. Lets just avoid each other here.

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#22
In reply to #2

Re: Veal Parmigiana anyone?

02/18/2009 11:07 AM

I have worked at what you would call sustainable farming. Grandmother had a dairy farm. Which was its main source of income. They did other farming most of what was placed on the table was raised on the farm. Pigs, chickens, turkeys, and assorted crops where grown. It is labor intensive. I do not agree that we could not sustain the food needed for our population. Its just that no one wants to pay for it. Thats why the loss of all the small farmers and the big factory farms.

One of the biggest consumers of milk is our public school system. The day after school lets out for summer vacation. The dairies that process it find every means to stick it to the farmer. Milk fat content to low, high bacteria content and many others excuses to cut the price payed to the farmer. As not as much milk is needed. Well the farmer just can't turn the cows off.

A lot of what the public sees are these pictures of sick animals in crowded yards are not where the animal where raise but in feeding pins to fatten them up prior to being slaughtered. We should be arguing these practices. These practices put fat on the animal which we don't need in our diet. Increase the cost to us the consumer and waste grain that could be put to better purposes.

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#6

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/18/2009 1:00 AM

Why stop with animals? What about the abuse to plants- force-feeding them unnatural nutrients, confining them to rigid rows, cropping their natural growth, genetically manipulating them, denying them their natural reproductive functions...Maybe Solient Green is the only ultimate answer??? Now where did I put my bouncy smileys, so everyone will know this is really intended as tongue and cheek???

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/18/2009 2:06 AM

Hey!!!I liked Soylent Green

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green

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#21
In reply to #7

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/18/2009 10:50 AM

How about the Japanese version; Soylent Brown? Tastes just like hamburger.

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#24
In reply to #6

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/18/2009 11:13 AM

Totally agree! And what of the terrible genocidial habit of seed eating. More lives are consumed for the least amount of energy and material when people eat poppy seeds, or sunflower seeds, then in any other consumption.

We basically munch on plant babies for snacks. Where's the outrage at that?

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#8

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/18/2009 6:42 AM

"they are killed when they are babies to satisfy our crave for Veal Cacchiatori or Veal Parmigiana)"

You forgot to mention Veal Marsala and Veal Saltiboca. Mmmm, Veal, my mouth is starting to water. I think I just decided on dinner.

Thanks Abe

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/18/2009 8:16 AM

Quite true. I love animals. They are delicious.

Is this what passes for engineering at RPI? There is a huge lack of critical thinking here.

The other posters are correct in that you can only give up eating meat for the whole population if you are willing to have mass starvation of humans. There simply is not enough protein available without meat on the menu.

Sustainable farming would really be classified as a farming method where the impact to the environment was overall neutral, waste products would be recycled, nothing would be landfilled. Maybe methane would be captured as best as possible to use as fuel, but that means confining the animals, not letting them roam around. Sustainability really has nothing to do with cruelty or the well being of the animals.

It would seem that the label of sustainability is being slapped onto a vegan agenda to try to score political points. Much like another blogger is going on about veganism being a way to reduce cholesterol. That's great for those of us who are relatively well off - we can afford irrational behavior. Most of the world can't.

When you have some practical solutions that maintain food production and meet your agenda for the well being of the food being produced get back to us.

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#28
In reply to #10

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/18/2009 5:55 PM

I understand your frustration when you hear suggestions that threaten your good life and do not know what to do or do not understand the writing.

I did not say that you should stop eating meat. In fact, you must know that I do eat meat. The point of my blog is to emphasize the torturing conditions of the animals during most of the lives. Just because you like to eat meat coming from a cow does not give you right to torture the animal for years and years. Read this report I found in the web, just as one small example of what is going on:

"As reported in "Settling Doubts About Livestock Stress," published in the March 2005 issue of Agricultural Research magazine (USDA ARS), "Farmers trim from a third to a half of the beaks off chickens, turkeys, and ducks to cut losses from poultry pecking each other." This causes severe pain for several weeks. Some, unable to eat after being debeaked, starve. Professor John Webster, of the University of Bristol's School of Veterinary Science, has said: 'Broilers are the only livestock that are in chronic pain for the last 20% of their lives.' "

Chronic pain! This is morally unacceptable for me. I will never enjoy a veal if I know that comes from a calf who spend all his entire life in a cage.

There are many similar situations in the world. Take, for instance, the case of the sweat shops that abound around the world (including in the US). These sweat shops, as you well know (lucky you!, you don't have to be an RPI student or graduate to understand this) are nothing more than slavery wards. Ther,e children of very young age work (are slaved!) producing goods that end up in our neighborhood stores in the US: Macy's, Wal Mart, etc. If I know that the shirt I am buying comes from a sweat shop I do not buy it because I do not think that my money should go to SPONSOR these terrorist. My money should not incentivate the creation of more sweat shops where more children will be destroyed.

Based on your first statement ("... I love animals. They are delicious.", you say) I am sure that you would say something like "... I like shirts. They are beautiful", and you will go ahead and buy the beautiful shirt. Maybe you will enjoy also the sugar produced in some islands in the Caribbean where (literally) slaves (normally from poor countries like Haiti) are used (I emphasize the word "used", because this is not work) to cut and process the cane from where the sugar is produced. I have seen these sugar producing farms!

Now, you are asking me to come back to CR4 when I have a practical solution. You imply that I have an agenda. Is this critical thinking? You do not know me, but for lack of an intelligent argument you assume that I have an agenda. Is this type of thinking prevalent in your alma matter? Maybe this is what passes for engineering there.

Even if we do not have a practical solution for now we should not shut-up. By exposing the animal terrorists, the human enslavers, the apartheid condoner, the killers of animals in Africa, the dictators who oppress their people, the deniers of climate change we make a contribution to the discourse that in the future may help solve the problem. If we do not speak now, the problem will grow.

What I suggest to you is very simple: do not eat meat or eggs or any animal products that comes from the farm of the terrorist. This is very simple. There is a big movement now toward this end: buy, for example, cage free eggs; buy pork from places where the animal is sacrificed at end of his life after spending it roaming and enjoying the fields; buy steak from farms where the cows spend their lives happy, free and eating from the fields.

You should deny the terrorist the means to continue his unacceptable behavior. Don't sponsor cruelty!

Abe

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/19/2009 8:13 AM

In the light of the 9/11 terrorist attacks your use of the word to describe farmers that are following typical industry practice indicates that you do have an agenda.

You also don't offer alternatives, you simply rant.

Also, your suggestions don't threaten my good life. I own enough land to farm and hunt my own food. Plus my mother in law won't eat venison, so that's an added bonus when she moves out. On the other hand, your "suggestions," if you can call labeling people terrorists a "suggestion," would cause a large part of the less affluent population considerable grief. You seem to just gloss this over without a care.

As I said, you can afford irrational behavior. Most of the rest of the world can't. Who are you to label them terrorists because of how they raise their food? And, if you are so bloody concerned, how would you have them live.

Get off your moralistic diatribe and come up with a working solution. Then you can call yourself an engineer again.

Right now you just sound like some religious nut case.

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#31
In reply to #29

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/19/2009 10:43 AM

Hi Eric,

I am a liberal-minded person. I do not have an agenda, and I do not propose religious solutions to any thing.

A terrorist is a person who instills pain and fear in others. It does not matter if you torture you pet or your cow or a human being.

It is very simply, Eric: If you torture an animal without any remorse, something is wrong with you. If you condone and encourage acts of torture (by buying the meat produced by torturers), something is wrong with you. If you buy a shirt from somebody who torture and enslave children in order to produce low cost shirts that you buy, something is wrong with you.

(By the way, I am using the word "you" in the above paragraph to refer to a third person in my discourse. I am not referring to you in particular).

Eric, try to keep your pet dog or cat in a 2-feet cage for his entire live and you will see that you will end up in jail for many years. The reason for going to jail is because by doing this despicable act you are in fact terrorizing and torturing your pet.

I am not asking you or anybody to stop eating animal products. My points are very simple. Again, here you have them: (1) if you know how the cow was treated and you find out that the cow has been in a constant state of terror, then do not buy the meat produced by this farmer; (2) Because there is no clear simple solution for now, let humanity start a dialogue to see how we can solve this problem (we are developing now a similar dialogue respect to climate changes); (3) don't enjoy the meat produced by torturers or the shirt produced by slave-drivers.

At the end it is only a matter of respect for any living subject (you should read Albert Schweitzer, to understand this idea).

Finally, there are many farmers whose farms are nothing more than big medieval torture chambers. There is no way you can deny or hide this fact.

Simple ideas. Think about them, Eric.

Good for you who have a lot of land to produce your food. I hope the animals in your farm roam free and happy in the fields. In my old country we (the family) have a huge vineyard and farm. I grew up seeing the cows, the horses, the sheep, the hens and the pigs living a very happy free life. Every time I go back for a visit I am happy to see that things in this matter have not changed a bit. We respect our animals. (Also, when I go there, I enjoy the extraordinary Cabernet Sauvignon we produce).

Abe

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#12
In reply to #8

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/18/2009 8:21 AM

I too like the above. When I take my wife out to dinner this weekend, veal is going to be on the menu, YUM!!!

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#15

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/18/2009 9:05 AM

P

PORK CHOPS TASTE GOOD

aND remember when breading your veal to mix 1/3 flower to your bread crumb seasoning to get a fuller crust when you fry them.

I cannot take any advice from some one who has not MET a farm animal

YES I SAID MET, have you ever personaly been to farm have you ever in person seen the stuff you are talking about or are these just one picture used to say every one is like this.

If you have ever been to a farm you and worked it for a few days, after that you would pickup an axe and kill all them stupid animals, most of them realy are jerks and deserve to die.

Except for the pigs, pigs can bee kool, some times, that why i always savor my pork more. go on and make friends witha cow and see how long that lasts, he dont care.

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#19

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/18/2009 10:26 AM

"The veal calves (they ae killed when they are babies to satisfy our crave for Veal Cacchiatori or Veal Parmigiana)"

I concern when some one has a agenda and don't take the time to get there facts straight. The calves that veal comes from is actually a waste product which comes from the dairy industry. All the pictures shown are of Holsteins calves which are dairy cows. As by waste I mean the cow has to have a calf in order to produce milk. These calves are a burden to the farmer if he has to raise them to maturity. The farmer only has so much land to support his herd. Each and every milk cow needs to produce in order to make the farm profitable. So the calves are sold off usually for veal. I know as I have worked on my Grandmother dairy farm that these calves are well cared for while there. They don't buy sick calves at the market where my uncle took them. How they are cared for after being sold may need to be approached. The first picture of a calf is one with its head thru the bars of a feeder it's not pinned in and can get out. It is means to keep them from pushing and shoving over the food and causing injury to themselves, also to control diet. The second is what appears to be a sick calf. Though the picture is very moving does it tell the whole story? It happens even to our children they get sick and die. Do we take a picture of a sick dieing child and make the assumption that it is not properly being taken care of?

Veal is a means to reclaim protein. Dates back to the small farmer that had to do every thing necessary to provide for his family. I give thanks to their wives. The dishes they have made from it are means to add flavor to this tasteless source of protein.

Even the protein from the chickens that are egg layer is used it feeds our dogs and cats. Some of it is used in canned soups.

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#27
In reply to #19

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/18/2009 3:44 PM

Now here is something I didin't know about veal. Thanks Ozzb.

The case of mistreated calves in veal production is something that had a basis in fact at some point in time, maybe still does, but this seems less likely, as a lot of pressure has been applied in adverse publicity, over decades. Surely all of that had some effect on the situation????

Unfortunately, there are certain groups that exploit the nastiest of stories to raise money and to get public support. Veal is probably one of those picture postcard stories, like the infamous seal pups, that has remained a great "cash cow" for the protest group, even though the industry has changed.

Sounds to me like Abe went to the classic fundraiser. Tell us, Abe, did they give an updated view of any changes in industry? Or were they talking the big 'generalizations' and flashing images from their collection dating back decades? Any statistical overview of present practices?

No one is happy to see farm animals abused or living miserable lives. I would be happy to learn that all those conditions had been improved on, not only for the animals but for the health value of the food that comes from them. I am totally alright with people who want to devote their lives to saving animals in distress, or farming sustainably, but I am not alright with people who raise funds with campaigns of lies....

For my own part, I buy organic meat when I see it available, to support those farmers who are making the effort to do it better. We can do better, I'm sure of that.

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#30
In reply to #19

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/19/2009 9:11 AM

I have to agree. I grew up on a dairy farm and also worked for several in the area all through my teenage years. I wouldn't say veal is a total waste product of the dairy industry though. Without doing any research I would have to guess the majority of veal comes from Holstein cows? Female calves are most often raised by the farmer or auctioned off to someone who more than likely raises them to produce milk, male calves are almost always doomed to become veal. Or in some rare cases will be raised to adulthood for breeding purposes. In all of my years of actually "delivering", feeding and caring for these young calves I never saw mistreatment of any of them, although what happens to them after they are sold I could not comment on.

On a personal note, I eat my fair share of meat daily but veal is not on my menu. It is a moral personal decision about eating something so young. Something that I watched so many take it's first breath for years and in some cases had to assist in the birthing process in order to save both mother and calf. But I guess once they grow up and have experienced somewhat of a life I have no problem eating them.

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#33
In reply to #19

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/19/2009 10:52 AM

Ozzb,

You are wrong: I do not have any social agenda.

I am glad to hear that in your farm your family never mistreated animals. My blog is not directed to you.

I am talking about the factory farms where animals are literally tortured for their entire lives. I am sure you know that most of our meat and animal products come from this big industrial farms.

Abe

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#35
In reply to #33

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

02/19/2009 4:11 PM

I think you are confusing feeding pens where livestock are fatten up prior to slaughter with the farms. Most of these are ran by the slaughter houses. The grain they feed them is cheap compared to price they get for the fat the animal puts on. Most of these are bought at livestock markets around the country and shipped to these holding areas.

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#36

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

03/14/2009 6:32 PM

The bottom line reason for most of theses practices is the corporate farm companies who make sure that the family farmer cannot stay in business. And don't get me started on Monsanto and other big companies taking over the seed business and using thier patents to force heirloom seed farmers out of business. Stop yammering about your pro-vegetarian causes and get really angry about the political and corporate corruption that is destroying the more humane family farms in favor of food factories.

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#37
In reply to #36

Re: Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

03/15/2009 12:54 PM

Dear Taganan,

I have to conclude that you have not been reading the thread from the beginning. I am trying to yammering any agenda!!! I am not a vegetarian; I am not anti meat-lovers.

My post was all about the greed of factory farms like Monsanto and others who, in order to make a profit they do not care to torture animals.

Abe

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