Veal Parmigiana, Anyone?

I agree. Do what you can in your life and be happy with that; you can't change everyone in the world.

Yes, sustainable farming is labor intensive, but what about all of the people on the welfare rolls? I tired of hearing that just because its not the exact job that they want to do, that people stay on welfare. When I was young and just out of college, I could not get a job in my field, so I took a job to pay the bills and put food on the table. In matter of fact, during the summer and early fall, I used to pick veggies and fruit to supplement my income and pantry? So, all of these people who say they are serious about getting off welfare need to put their words into actions.

Sorry, about the rant, but just offering a partial solution two two problems.

Why stop with animals? What about the abuse to plants- force-feeding them unnatural nutrients, confining them to rigid rows, cropping their natural growth, genetically manipulating them, denying them their natural reproductive functions...Maybe Solient Green is the only ultimate answer??? Now where did I put my bouncy smileys, so everyone will know this is really intended as tongue and cheek???

Hey!!!I liked Soylent Green

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green

How about the Japanese version; Soylent Brown? Tastes just like hamburger.

Totally agree! And what of the terrible genocidial habit of seed eating. More lives are consumed for the least amount of energy and material when people eat poppy seeds, or sunflower seeds, then in any other consumption.

We basically munch on plant babies for snacks. Where's the outrage at that?

"they are killed when they are babies to satisfy our crave for Veal Cacchiatori or Veal Parmigiana)"

You forgot to mention Veal Marsala and Veal Saltiboca. Mmmm, Veal, my mouth is starting to water. I think I just decided on dinner.

Thanks Abe

Quite true. I love animals. They are delicious.

Is this what passes for engineering at RPI? There is a huge lack of critical thinking here.

The other posters are correct in that you can only give up eating meat for the whole population if you are willing to have mass starvation of humans. There simply is not enough protein available without meat on the menu.

Sustainable farming would really be classified as a farming method where the impact to the environment was overall neutral, waste products would be recycled, nothing would be landfilled. Maybe methane would be captured as best as possible to use as fuel, but that means confining the animals, not letting them roam around. Sustainability really has nothing to do with cruelty or the well being of the animals.

It would seem that the label of sustainability is being slapped onto a vegan agenda to try to score political points. Much like another blogger is going on about veganism being a way to reduce cholesterol. That's great for those of us who are relatively well off - we can afford irrational behavior. Most of the world can't.

When you have some practical solutions that maintain food production and meet your agenda for the well being of the food being produced get back to us.

I understand your frustration when you hear suggestions that threaten your good life and do not know what to do or do not understand the writing.

I did not say that you should stop eating meat. In fact, you must know that I do eat meat. The point of my blog is to emphasize the torturing conditions of the animals during most of the lives. Just because you like to eat meat coming from a cow does not give you right to torture the animal for years and years. Read this report I found in the web, just as one small example of what is going on:

"As reported in "Settling Doubts About Livestock Stress," published in the March 2005 issue of Agricultural Research magazine (USDA ARS), "Farmers trim from a third to a half of the beaks off chickens, turkeys, and ducks to cut losses from poultry pecking each other." This causes severe pain for several weeks. Some, unable to eat after being debeaked, starve. Professor John Webster, of the University of Bristol's School of Veterinary Science, has said: 'Broilers are the only livestock that are in chronic pain for the last 20% of their lives.' "

Chronic pain! This is morally unacceptable for me. I will never enjoy a veal if I know that comes from a calf who spend all his entire life in a cage.

There are many similar situations in the world. Take, for instance, the case of the sweat shops that abound around the world (including in the US). These sweat shops, as you well know (lucky you!, you don't have to be an RPI student or graduate to understand this) are nothing more than slavery wards. Ther,e children of very young age work (are slaved!) producing goods that end up in our neighborhood stores in the US: Macy's, Wal Mart, etc. If I know that the shirt I am buying comes from a sweat shop I do not buy it because I do not think that my money should go to SPONSOR these terrorist. My money should not incentivate the creation of more sweat shops where more children will be destroyed.

Based on your first statement ("... I love animals. They are delicious.", you say) I am sure that you would say something like "... I like shirts. They are beautiful", and you will go ahead and buy the beautiful shirt. Maybe you will enjoy also the sugar produced in some islands in the Caribbean where (literally) slaves (normally from poor countries like Haiti) are used (I emphasize the word "used", because this is not work) to cut and process the cane from where the sugar is produced. I have seen these sugar producing farms!

Now, you are asking me to come back to CR4 when I have a practical solution. You imply that I have an agenda. Is this critical thinking? You do not know me, but for lack of an intelligent argument you assume that I have an agenda. Is this type of thinking prevalent in your alma matter? Maybe this is what passes for engineering there.

Even if we do not have a practical solution for now we should not shut-up. By exposing the animal terrorists, the human enslavers, the apartheid condoner, the killers of animals in Africa, the dictators who oppress their people, the deniers of climate change we make a contribution to the discourse that in the future may help solve the problem. If we do not speak now, the problem will grow.

What I suggest to you is very simple: do not eat meat or eggs or any animal products that comes from the farm of the terrorist. This is very simple. There is a big movement now toward this end: buy, for example, cage free eggs; buy pork from places where the animal is sacrificed at end of his life after spending it roaming and enjoying the fields; buy steak from farms where the cows spend their lives happy, free and eating from the fields.

You should deny the terrorist the means to continue his unacceptable behavior. Don't sponsor cruelty!

Abe

In the light of the 9/11 terrorist attacks your use of the word to describe farmers that are following typical industry practice indicates that you do have an agenda.

You also don't offer alternatives, you simply rant.

Also, your suggestions don't threaten my good life. I own enough land to farm and hunt my own food. Plus my mother in law won't eat venison, so that's an added bonus when she moves out. On the other hand, your "suggestions," if you can call labeling people terrorists a "suggestion," would cause a large part of the less affluent population considerable grief. You seem to just gloss this over without a care.

As I said, you can afford irrational behavior. Most of the rest of the world can't. Who are you to label them terrorists because of how they raise their food? And, if you are so bloody concerned, how would you have them live.

Get off your moralistic diatribe and come up with a working solution. Then you can call yourself an engineer again.

Right now you just sound like some religious nut case.

Hi Eric,

I am a liberal-minded person. I do not have an agenda, and I do not propose religious solutions to any thing.

A terrorist is a person who instills pain and fear in others. It does not matter if you torture you pet or your cow or a human being.

It is very simply, Eric: If you torture an animal without any remorse, something is wrong with you. If you condone and encourage acts of torture (by buying the meat produced by torturers), something is wrong with you. If you buy a shirt from somebody who torture and enslave children in order to produce low cost shirts that you buy, something is wrong with you.

(By the way, I am using the word "you" in the above paragraph to refer to a third person in my discourse. I am not referring to you in particular).

Eric, try to keep your pet dog or cat in a 2-feet cage for his entire live and you will see that you will end up in jail for many years. The reason for going to jail is because by doing this despicable act you are in fact terrorizing and torturing your pet.

I am not asking you or anybody to stop eating animal products. My points are very simple. Again, here you have them: (1) if you know how the cow was treated and you find out that the cow has been in a constant state of terror, then do not buy the meat produced by this farmer; (2) Because there is no clear simple solution for now, let humanity start a dialogue to see how we can solve this problem (we are developing now a similar dialogue respect to climate changes); (3) don't enjoy the meat produced by torturers or the shirt produced by slave-drivers.

At the end it is only a matter of respect for any living subject (you should read Albert Schweitzer, to understand this idea).

Finally, there are many farmers whose farms are nothing more than big medieval torture chambers. There is no way you can deny or hide this fact.

Simple ideas. Think about them, Eric.

Good for you who have a lot of land to produce your food. I hope the animals in your farm roam free and happy in the fields. In my old country we (the family) have a huge vineyard and farm. I grew up seeing the cows, the horses, the sheep, the hens and the pigs living a very happy free life. Every time I go back for a visit I am happy to see that things in this matter have not changed a bit. We respect our animals. (Also, when I go there, I enjoy the extraordinary Cabernet Sauvignon we produce).

Abe

I too like the above. When I take my wife out to dinner this weekend, veal is going to be on the menu, YUM!!!

P

PORK CHOPS TASTE GOOD

aND remember when breading your veal to mix 1/3 flower to your bread crumb seasoning to get a fuller crust when you fry them.

I cannot take any advice from some one who has not MET a farm animal

YES I SAID MET, have you ever personaly been to farm have you ever in person seen the stuff you are talking about or are these just one picture used to say every one is like this.

If you have ever been to a farm you and worked it for a few days, after that you would pickup an axe and kill all them stupid animals, most of them realy are jerks and deserve to die.

Except for the pigs, pigs can bee kool, some times, that why i always savor my pork more. go on and make friends witha cow and see how long that lasts, he dont care.

Now here is something I didin't know about veal. Thanks Ozzb.

The case of mistreated calves in veal production is something that had a basis in fact at some point in time, maybe still does, but this seems less likely, as a lot of pressure has been applied in adverse publicity, over decades. Surely all of that had some effect on the situation????

Unfortunately, there are certain groups that exploit the nastiest of stories to raise money and to get public support. Veal is probably one of those picture postcard stories, like the infamous seal pups, that has remained a great "cash cow" for the protest group, even though the industry has changed.

Sounds to me like Abe went to the classic fundraiser. Tell us, Abe, did they give an updated view of any changes in industry? Or were they talking the big 'generalizations' and flashing images from their collection dating back decades? Any statistical overview of present practices?

No one is happy to see farm animals abused or living miserable lives. I would be happy to learn that all those conditions had been improved on, not only for the animals but for the health value of the food that comes from them. I am totally alright with people who want to devote their lives to saving animals in distress, or farming sustainably, but I am not alright with people who raise funds with campaigns of lies....

For my own part, I buy organic meat when I see it available, to support those farmers who are making the effort to do it better. We can do better, I'm sure of that.

I have to agree. I grew up on a dairy farm and also worked for several in the area all through my teenage years. I wouldn't say veal is a total waste product of the dairy industry though. Without doing any research I would have to guess the majority of veal comes from Holstein cows? Female calves are most often raised by the farmer or auctioned off to someone who more than likely raises them to produce milk, male calves are almost always doomed to become veal. Or in some rare cases will be raised to adulthood for breeding purposes. In all of my years of actually "delivering", feeding and caring for these young calves I never saw mistreatment of any of them, although what happens to them after they are sold I could not comment on.

On a personal note, I eat my fair share of meat daily but veal is not on my menu. It is a moral personal decision about eating something so young. Something that I watched so many take it's first breath for years and in some cases had to assist in the birthing process in order to save both mother and calf. But I guess once they grow up and have experienced somewhat of a life I have no problem eating them.

Ozzb,

You are wrong: I do not have any social agenda.

I am glad to hear that in your farm your family never mistreated animals. My blog is not directed to you.

I am talking about the factory farms where animals are literally tortured for their entire lives. I am sure you know that most of our meat and animal products come from this big industrial farms.

Abe

I think you are confusing feeding pens where livestock are fatten up prior to slaughter with the farms. Most of these are ran by the slaughter houses. The grain they feed them is cheap compared to price they get for the fat the animal puts on. Most of these are bought at livestock markets around the country and shipped to these holding areas.

The bottom line reason for most of theses practices is the corporate farm companies who make sure that the family farmer cannot stay in business. And don't get me started on Monsanto and other big companies taking over the seed business and using thier patents to force heirloom seed farmers out of business. Stop yammering about your pro-vegetarian causes and get really angry about the political and corporate corruption that is destroying the more humane family farms in favor of food factories.

Dear Taganan,

I have to conclude that you have not been reading the thread from the beginning. I am trying to yammering any agenda!!! I am not a vegetarian; I am not anti meat-lovers.

My post was all about the greed of factory farms like Monsanto and others who, in order to make a profit they do not care to torture animals.

Abe