Wind War Weary?

Hi,

it's really a big concern!

There are something you have to know when you install a wind turbine at your back yard. the first concern is the noise. If your wind turbine have others sleepless, you will meet big trouble.

And the second is safety as far as I can concern.

generally, if you maintain well and the equipment is good, it can be safe.

Wait for your new comments.

Rgds.

Anyone who is concerned about the noise created by wind turbine generators has never been close to one. (and imho are likely shills for fossil fuel companies) In my own experience there is NO excess noise from either the generators or the towers, and I am familiar with big generators of over 300 ft. towers and 2+ megawatt generators.

I am also familiar with the smaller home and community sized generators which can sit on a building or on a tower of only 25 to 40 ft. high. This size can't even be heard. I grew up in rural NE where we pumped all of our water with windmills and when I was young generated our own electricity (until 1953) with wind generators. The wind in the sparse groves of trees made more noise than either of these mechanical devices.

With local or personal generation there need be no high power transmission lines so trading each generator for say 20 - 30 power poles with wires hanging on them has to be less unsightly, don't you think? I have always hated the sight of power poles and lines criss-crossing our country and reminding us constantly of the inefficiency and greed of big business that traps us into paying them continuously for something we can have for a single investment like we do our homes.

Great answer. Especially about the power poles. I cannot believe the negativity of many people toward any and all viable solutions to any energy improvements. I guess it comes down to just not thinking things out. We need energy and water. Whatever technology that provides them most economically, without harming the actual environment, should be beautiful to us. I would like to see windmills, go to a sky blue color though. That might make them more acceptable to some people. I would think they would be hard to see, especially offshore.

Hello Ronwagn,

Why don't you folks that are so wired up for these Nationally Created, "Privately Owned' wind farms just do the math. You are proposing and supporting the creation of a {100% cost of billions of American Taxpayer Dollars} to construct an energy production system that on it's best day can only produce 25% of its designed capability in energy production. IMHO that is like having to pay four times the cost for groceries, clothes, housing and just about everything else we need to survive on this planet. Have you ever heard of the word "inflation, and do you understand what the word means. How would you like to pay $20.00 for a $5.00 hamberger every time you took your kids out to MD's, just how long do you think your money would last.

In a community not far from where I live, Progress Energy, the local monopoly decided to construct another High Tension line through said community right down busy highways and thru residential areas and half way across the state just to provide additional electricity to the greater Miami area, from Tampa. The condemned the right of way across thousands of residential properties just so they could hang these "uglier than sin, wires", right through said homesteads.

It would have been less expensive to construct a Natural gas fired facility locally than to go to this great expense.

Stupid people do and support stupid acts.

TMF

You illustrate my argument very well. " Not in my backyard" and just business as usual. That said, I would think that the most economical fuel should be used, taking into consideration the pollution entailed. I would want to see Miami build their own wind turbines offshore, rather than build the power lines you are referring to. Your reading comprehension isn't too good . You didn't grasp where I said whatever technology is most economical and environmentally friendly, that includes natural gas or whatever. Some people just like to be negative. Strange isn't it.

I Have supported Natural Gas as the single most cost effective and available fuel for electricity more than any other CR 4 responder or Guru. I suggest that before you jump on anyone else's case that you take the effort to go back and review this same subject as it was discussed in significant detail just less than two months ago. As a matter of fact I almost passed over responding to this thread as it has nothing new to offer to the subject.

TMF

Hear is a thought, why don't we just have all of the present vacant space filled with all of your damb wind turbines and build the transmission lines right over all of the metropolitan, residential and commercial areas, right down the center of the enter state highways and any where that they can be constructed. We could then shut down all other forms of electricity generation. Of course we will need a battery larger than the Greater Metropolitan area of Washington DC just to store enough energy to energize the east coast and another one in the Mississippi river flood plain and yet another the size of LA out on the west coast.

You are hearing it right hear on CR 4 from this "Thinking Guru".

The whole idea "SUCKS" when considered in the "humongus" impact of the outregeous cost for the energy produced, is compared with other methods of electricity production.

I say not only not in my back yard but not with my tax dollars. Leave the wind turbines to folks who desire to be independant and off the grid, "LIKE ME". Don't regulate the independants away from providing their own energy, and force us to buy your wind produced energy.

TooMuchFun

Hi,

Wind is a kind of renewable energy, however, it's not the only energy source. So it's not a either-or situation. However, there is competition among different energy sources which can cause a price cut down of all, and it's the benefit of customers.

Per the cost, I think there have been a lot of thoughts posted in CR4, that's the reason I don't want to talk much, in case there will be another meaningless warfare(there is no offend to anybody.) Cost is certainly something important that we have to consider, especially at the time of global e-crisis. (BTW, we also have to consider the cost of the global crisis which definitely can't be avoided if our energy is still mostly produced from oil,gas,coal and other irreproducible sources.)

But as I'm selling small wind turbines, both off-grid and on-grid, I should post something about how to choose wind turbines for your reference. Here are some tips:

1,cost (You can't say that I have ignored the consumers' cost. And If you really want to tighten your budget, buy from China)

B4 you buy a wind turbine, you have to check where to install it and how much power it can generate with the local speed. Usually, if the rated speed of the wind turbine is 1.5-2 times than the average wind speed, the efficiency can be good. Then, needless to say, you will find if it is costable to buy one. (Don't forget the life circle of the equipment, as there is the depreciation in it)

Our wind turbines can start up at 2.5m/s to 3m/s, and the rated speeds are from 6m/s to 14m/s from 350W to 20KW. You can check if it can meet your local wind speed.

2, Maintainence

Some countries have a higher labor cost, so if you need a local person to install and maintain your equipments, you have to check its cost. Therefore, you have to consider if the equipment is easy to install and maintain, so you needn't to have much labor to do that. SO you have to check the instruction and the weight of the equipments carefully.

Our wind turbines are easy to install and free to maintain. Only the first 3 months after installation have you to do some maintainance on the screws and guys.

3,safety

something like over voltage, high wind speed, lightening,etc. can cause damages to wind turbines, even start fire. So you have to check if the factory has some protection precautions. Per over voltage, there must be unloader resistance, per high wind

speed, whatever it is mechanical or electrical motived, the turbines have to stop or turn its direction. Per lightning, maybe a lightning rod is necessary, but for small wind turbines with a height less than 25m. I don't think it is necessary.

Our wind turbines have over voltage preotection, over discharge protection, over speed protection and over temperature protection. The blades can stop running completely by short circuit when meet strong winds like hurricane, typhoon,etc. We use DC-regulating direction generator to turn the wind turbines both to search for wind and to avoid facing large wind directly.

4,Environment protection

It's the noise. Check the noise. Our wind turbine has a noise less than 40DB at its rated speed at the top of its pole (about 6-14m high above the ground). You can check if it is noisy. ( Don't forget the wind can also cause noise)

5, warranty

Good fatory has specific warranty. Our wind turbine has a very detailed warranty declaration. Briefly speaking, the generator is 5 years, the towers and blades are 2 years, and the control systems are 1 year 7 days after the equipemnt reaches the destination port.

6, technology

good feature is b'coz of advanced technology, not some novel designs. And the most important technology is in the generator and controller systems. We have 4 patents in the generator (with 2 patents are international agreed), one patent in the controller system, one patent in structure one one patent in small wind speed start-up. Totally 7 patents till now. That's why our wind turbines are super light, super small, super swift, and super stable.

7, materials

Needless to say more, here are all engineers. You know what kinds of materials are good.

It's a tough job to write it down, especially when I also have to stop for while to answer a call.

B/Rgds.

Ani-Luo

Skype:Ani-windturbine, Email/MSN:hummer-607@hotmail.com, web:www.chianhummer.cn/eng)

I agree with your posts. I have a small wind generator that just about keeps the batteries topped off from my PV array. I have one mast stay connected to the house, and the vibration and noise can be annoying. On a larger scale, the constant 'woof' of large bladed rigs is a lot more than annoying. They are disruptive to the scenery, especially in tourist areas such as the Catskills here in NY, where tourists are most of the economy. Individual wind generators are seen as a novelty, and are unobtrusive. The real shame is that the NIMBY crowd often nixes wind power installations even where they are practicable and unobtrusive. I'm thinking specifically of the flats off of Cape Fear, NC. 3000 acres, 10' deep, outside of shipping lanes, and no more visually obtrusive than the container, cargo, and oil carriers that are a constant on the near (2mi.) horizon. Another site near Cape Cod, MA has gotten the same knee jerk reaction. There are others.

There would be more gas turbines if they were more cost effective, and breakdown rates for them is high. Usually they are relegated to co-generation because of the quick start up and dampening needed to fill the gaps for larger, less wieldy plants, for which they are ideal.

I believe that the most cost effective and least environmentally disruptive power supplies would be tidal turbines, followed by nuclear energy, direct solar reflective heating towers, gas turbines, and at the bottom of the list would be photovoltaics (present form), coal, space based microwave (not going to happen on my watch),and wind energy at the bottom. Remote locations will need what is available.

I think one way to improve the situation is to simplify and streamline the measurement of wind systems. Since I started looking into wind systems, I have seen hundreds of different ideas about how to best capture the wind, and every one has different noise and other impact variables.

I would like to see education and proliferation of the common metrics such as swept-area-to-power-output, which is sort of similar to the old power-to-weight ratio for mobile power plants. This and other measurement variables which are more or less universal, would ensure that the average citizen has common measurements by which to comprehend the efficiencies of public and private wind installations.

Also, I think that more public money could be spent on wind monitoring across the contintent(s), and to have that data publicly available (if it isn't already) for common comparative use. Then if you are studying your particular wind installation or wind farm, then you can translate effectively the efficiency and compare to other installations, and generate more reliable data.

As for the NIMBY effect, economic and political imperatives will determine the outcome. If people are breaking rock, shovelling ditches in 100 deg heat, dust, etc like back in the 30's, then they probably won't complain of money from wind eases their plight by raising standards of living in their community or region.

Energy is a fundamental source of value, and therefore money. When the economy is slow, I think we need to look at all possible alternatives on a comparative basis, and make wise investments on those systems that will pay the best. Also a matrix of solutions is a good idea, for it raises the reliability factor. I think that we should also not just be dependent on grid power, but have an array of energy options for all uses.

Chris

Maybe the problem (and solution) is that the 400-foot towers don't bring revenue into those back yards. Maybe in this case of wind farms, co-ops are better then corps.

UG

I have been served by Co-Ops, and I find them to be just as ruthless as any other local monopoly and always more expensive. The days of the usefulness of co-ops in this nation have come and gone where electricity is concerned. They all pretty much pattern their business operations after other local Municipal Monopolies, but their operating expenses are some how even higher, so the PUC's permit them to charge the customer more per KWH. And the areas allocated for service dose not even permit the property owner the option of which party the service will be provided by when on one side of the road service is provided by Co-Op and the other is provided by a lesser expensive Public Utility Service.

Forget the Co-Op idea. That is unless you would agree with me that a National Co-Op, Federal Govt., should own all power generating facilities and transmission lines. And; they should be managed by a realitively independant Department. Electricity was at one time a luxery, but to day it is not unlike the need for food and water for survival. If you think that it is, then you don't live in a multi story high rise tenement apt. in some great big metropolitan area. For the first time in history, "more people live in cities than all other places combined." They depend on outside sourses for food and metropolitan utilities for water and waste disposal. When some far off profiteer, masquarading as a public utility, screws up millions of city dwellers are without electricity. Crime erupts and rampant human violations occur.

Like it or not, it is simply in the best interest of the nation as a whole, not unlike our national defence system.

TMF