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Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

Posted August 18, 2009 7:00 AM by tinypilot18

The Cessna 152 that I learned to fly with was jam-packed with problems. The radio stopped working, the transponder failed, the vacuum pump broke - and much, much more. But my biggest worry was that the seat would break.

Because I'm so short, I had to slide the seat up to the furthest notch in order to fly. My feet could then reach the rudder pedals, and I could control the yoke (the airplane's steering wheel).

Snaps and Stalls

When I was taking flying lessons, occasionally while practicing stalls or during take-off, the seat would snap and go rolling into the back of the plane, taking me with it. This, as you can imagine, is very dangerous. Not only could I no longer control the plane, but I also risked stalling the Cessna.

Let me explain. Normally, when the seat flies back, you're holding onto the yoke. And when you go flying back, you take the controls with you. This brings the plane into a steep climb and possibly a stall. Luckily for me, the few times this had happened were when I was with an instructor, who could just take the controls and land the plane safely.

Naturally, my instructor did not want me to solo again until the seat was fixed. But with enough persuasion, the airport replaced the old navy blue seat with a new bright red seat. I thought this would fix the problem - so did my instructor.

High Winds

Now flying my third solo, I was doing things as usual. It was unusually gusty that day, however, and the runway's location between two hills did not help with the turbulence. The conditions were probably on the borderline of what I was allowed to fly in, but I went anyways. This was not a good idea.

About a thousand feet into the air, while I was still climbing, a gust of wind pushed my plane on a steep angle and my seat snapped. The combination of the seat going and the gust blowing scared me half to death. Luckily, the seat fell back only a few notches instead of the usual all the way back. But I was still left unable to reach the rudder pedals, and extremely afraid that this would happen again - only much worse.

I loosened my seatbelt so that I could inch up on the seat and just about reach the rudder pedals with the tips of my toes. This flight was over as far as I was concerned. The next order of business was getting the plane down on the ground safety.

Be Prepared

I landed that plane safely, but wouldn't fly it again until that seat was tested and fixed for good. Although my story had a safe ending, a problem like this could have gone wrong for anyone.

Later, I learned that a week earlier, a woman had rented this very same plane and just about gotten the wheels off the runway when the seat snapped with her in it, too. She put the plane right back down on the runway, using the entirety of the 4,000-foot surface before taking the plane back.

It's hard to prepare for a situation like this because it's so rare and unexpected. The only advice I can give is to make sure that everything about the aircraft is in top condition before you fly. Yes, we had inspected the seat and shaken it back and forth before the flight to see if it would stay in position. And it did. But you never know what can happen while you're in the air.

Next entry:

Learning to Fly: Getting Lost (Part 1)

Previous Entries:

Learning to Fly: Going Solo

Learning to Fly: Choosing a Plane

Learning to Fly: Ground School

Learning to Fly: Meet Tinypilot18

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#1

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/18/2009 10:15 AM

Gee Tiny Pilot, I hope you stopped renting planes from whatever people allow such things.

Sounds like a right iffy operation.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/18/2009 1:28 PM

Don't you mean a "fly by night" operation? Couldn't avoid the pun there.

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#3

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/19/2009 1:07 AM

I hope since that time you have read the training manuals and realized the importance of logging any thing out of the ordinary in the planes flight log and also your own log book. Even hard touchdowns need to be recorded so the next pilot knows inspection of the gear and engine mounts are in order. Being PIC carries responsibility s beyond you own flight and well being. I am dumbfounded that your instructor failed to prevent this plane from carrying an air worthy certificate until it was certified as being air worthy. I just can't stress how serious your issues were and how failure to follow FAA procedures endangered innocent people in the plane and on the ground. Please post the tail numbers of this craft so those who rent aircraft can make a note in their logs to avoid this particular aircraft. Planes used for students are subject to lots of abuse and pilots need to use the utmost discretion in determining whether or not to fly the craft. You are also responsible to read the aircrafts log so you will know of any prior problems or suspicions of things not being right. If you have any doubt discuss your concerns with the FBO before renting and make your concerns known in the planes log book and a note in your log book with the tail number, their is no acceptable complacency for a PIC. J.Conway

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/19/2009 2:29 AM

Dear Jerrell, I gave you a GA, which I rarely mention and generally prefer to give out anonymously, partly because I was at a loss for words and you supplied many of them.

I myself hardly ever had any reason to make any notations in the planes flight log of rented planes, though I do have a hard landing that probably ought to have been recorded. (My "instructor" was asleep and Control asked if I'd do a tail wind landing and I hit hard.) It is the only time I ever broke out in a cold sweat. Woke the instructor up. Not really his fault. Lineman straw luck flight for the radio traffic report little bits you got.

If the mechanics kill our Tinypilot they will go to jail, plus lose their license, if not worse.

However I have suggested she not rent from them anymore, and cultivate good relations with mechanics. "He cleans up well." Personally I hate 152s, though they are pretty tough I simply didn't like their flying characteristics. Of course they will fly themselves out of a spin, whereas a Tomahawk won't, and so more people crash the Tomahawk, but only the heavier highwings work for me. 182 Rg, and P210 work for me, though by then you want a Bonanza in your hands. I want an airplane, not a kite...

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/19/2009 8:20 AM

If you don't want a kite, get a brick. Fly an Ercoupe sometime.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Hooker

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/19/2009 10:38 AM

In the defense of the A&P or IA responsible for the repair if he or she did not know of a hard landing then he/she could not do the proper repair there are 3 different repairs for that perticular seat system 2 are derived from AD's and the other is just a change of the seat. the best troubleshooting of a system begins with the pilot we mechanics can only fix what we know is broken and not what needs replaced.

It sounds as if the FBO needed to replace the seat rails and not just the seat. they also needed to inspect the seat stops and insure proper ingagement of the pins and locks. the FAA has mandated all seats to be a double buy back because this happens alot.

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#6

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/19/2009 8:59 AM

IIRC, there is an AD (Airworthiness Directive) for the seat rails for Cessna's. I know it is a common problem, it's happened to me back when I used to fly, though without the drama. I think the last 152 was built in 1986, and the training fleet is generally older and can be pretty ratty. When you pre-flight, and after a flight, make a squawk list and give it to your flight school. Your safety, and the next person who flies that plane, is at stake. Don't fly a plane with problems, learning to fly is hard enough without bad equipment.

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#8

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/19/2009 10:49 AM

Thoroughly enjoy the blogs, TP ~ really "takes me back"...

I paid for a few lessons (decades ago) using paper route earnings. Dad wouldn't help; he asked: "Why would I want to become an airline pilot? All that is is a bus driver with the wheels off the ground a good bit of the time!"

[Don't get me wrong... love my dad more than there's room to document here!]

Anyway --- my instructor was a rather crude-dude. Referred to himself as an old fart, an old bull, and various other terms of endearment. Long-story-short: he was very effective at putting things into 'proper' perspective very quickly.

During lesson 2 (following a quick immersion into my first basic manual), he asked me to explain what the throttle does.

I'll never forget how animated he became, after I tried to propound that by varying the speed of the engine & propeller, it controlled the forward speed of the plane.

,,,,

So, will a future blog be explaining how it is the craft's attitude that controls the airspeed...?

Of course, ultimately, identifying ALL factors that play-into determination of airspeed...(?)

Keep up the good work !

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#9

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/19/2009 1:50 PM

Brings back memories. Long ago, way before GPS was even thought of, I was flying cross country when the battery went dead in the Cessna 150. No VOR, no radio, gas guages read empty (they weren't) and no flaps. Luckily, I used to fly IFR (I follow roads) and lots of communities print their town names on water towers for lost pilots.

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#10

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/19/2009 4:13 PM

Hi tp18: Wow! that's amazing. What's your take on ultralites? Or hm flyers?

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/19/2009 8:25 PM

Dear kandule, Low and slow is the most dangerous way to fly.

What happens when you crash an ultralight is that the tubing typically sticks you with force causing major internal damage, and you die a horrible death.

A similar way to die is to run a motorcycle into a wall.

A 152 or a Tomahawk, and then some of the older planes like Cubs or Taylorcraft will at least handle a little weather.

The last time I got a story from a friend of mine about how his friend died flying an Ultralight, engine failure after take-off put his friend in, and it took his friend six hours to die.

This is another reason when getting involved in motorized flight to maintain and cultivate good relationships with mechanics.

P.S. I am pleased that a few mechanics who apparently have Aircraft and Powerplant Licenses have shown up here.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/19/2009 11:40 PM

As an A&P I to dislike the ultralights but the FAA is soon to put regulations into place that put the ultralight and experimental classes into the hands of us mechanics just as they have with ULJs and VLJs and sport class aircraft. So if it where up to us the ultralight's would go away and put the gliders and hang-gliders back to their roots.......powerless.......

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/20/2009 9:05 AM

Sorry to hear your attitude on this, and I don't believe, based on "So if it where up to us", that you speak for the majority of A&P holders. I work with dozens of A&P's and, myself, have years of mechanic experience on military and public use aircraft, and very few, if any, have this attitude.

Why would anybody want to restrict those of us who love to tinker and love freedom? Isn't there enough federal regulation to go around now? Do we need more?

What is your motivation for your attitude? Are you worried about our well-being? If so, stop it. I can look out for myself. I'm at more risk everyday tooling around on my motorcycle than I am in an ultralight.

Or is your motivation an opportunity to make more money selling your licensed services under federal mandate? Well, get outta my pocketbook, please.

Also, what is your source on new FAA regs? I work in this realm everyday and haven't heard anything about any new restrictions you imply. Nary a squawk on the EAA website.

BTW, I know more than one A&P that I wouldn't let anywhere near any aircraft I may fly, just as I know several non-licensed mechanics that I have the utmost trust in, myself included. Having the license does not necessarily imply competence, it mostly just provides a papertrail.

FWIW!!

Hooker

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/20/2009 9:16 AM

Working as a systems engineer, I had a boss once, degreed himself, who asked me why I so badly wanted to go to school to get my degree. He did not know that it was out of respect for him that I did so. He told me that I was already doing the job (I knew that) and that getting a degree would serve no purpose but to prove that I could do what I already was known for doing.

Papertrail, indeed! I am always skeptical of the desires of those who say "We need to make sure no one can do this without a certification", and "I'll help write the certification exam", followed by "Of course, I don't need to take an exam and get certified, again".

Sauce for the goose may NOT be sauce for the gander. Perhaps the gander doesn't care to have the sauce, being satisfied already. As long as the public who know my work, trust my work, I doubt a government flunkie is better suited to certify my worthiness.

And I ARE a government flunkie!

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/20/2009 10:03 AM

Well said.

Hooker <--- recovering government flunkie (31 years and counting)

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/20/2009 11:30 AM

President Ronald Reagan's most frightening 9 words.

"I'm from the government. I'm here to help you."

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#17

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/20/2009 2:23 PM

Gents:

Sorry if I opened up a sore subject. It's not if I believe or not in certification. It's nice to hang on the wall and (the effort) must mean something. My interest is in flying and being airborne, the idea and feeling of like floating in the air (without jumping off a cliff) propelled and in control, able to maneuver to safety and being able to land safely. But thank you for sharing.

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#18

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/21/2009 10:05 AM

there is an AD (Airworthiness Directive) for the seat rails for Cessna's.

Cessna was sued over this and almost went out of business. I know of one fatality caused by the seat rail problem.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/21/2009 12:00 PM

......billg...... (post #6) already got a GoodAnswer for saying just that......

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/21/2009 12:40 PM

......billg...... (post #6) already got a GoodAnswer for saying just that......

I know...I pasted the AD comment. I don't remember post # 6 mentioning anything about dead people......law suites......or bankruptcy though.

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#21

Re: Learning to Fly: Take Your Seat

08/26/2009 10:08 AM

There are few cardinal points here. Did you report the seat problem immediately after it happened?. who singend the airplane back to service? Who signed it again after the second time it happened? and the third time? Are all log entry in place there, Was the seat AD complied with? If I were to be the owner I would certainly look for a new A&P and most probably a new IA. And if I were you, and assuming that you are niether stupid the suicidal type,nor a liar I would look for another school and most probably another instructor. Thanks god you are still alive. I do hope that the FAA reads this post , and take the necessary actions. And posting the name address etc. of that shady operation on the internet could most probably save lives.

I know what I am talking about as I have loged more that 7000 Houres in the right seat as a CFI-SE/ME/CFIH/ Etc.......Wangito.

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