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Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/19/2015 8:27 PM

Can anyone advise me how to prevent micro bubbles to trap inside the Hach conductivity sensor. I have provide the debubbler, install the Hach flowcell at 30 deg, according to Hach installation guide yet it is still not working.

It takes about 4 - 6 hours where the bubble accumulated that trap inside the side and cause the false reading.

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#1

Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/19/2015 9:16 PM

I think storing this device in a 15 G mechanical vibration environment with a randomly distributed frequency region of 15 to 150 HZ will significantly reduce the possibility of any bubble from forming. This will be a better solution than the obvious technique of using these sensors in a 1000 °C environment that will vaporize any liquid (and many solids) [assuming one atmosphere of pressure] thus making no bubbles possible at all from forming.

On a more serious note, contact your manufacturer, Hach, about how you are using their sensor design. Discuss with them your concerns and most importantly how you are using their product. You might find a simple sensor orientation will solve your problem (the bubbles simply float away) to the remote possibility that this is an intrinsic flaw in their sensor design approach.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/19/2015 9:22 PM

Thanks for your sharing, But, I forgotten to explain that I am handling the treated water. (for drinking)

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#6
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Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/19/2015 10:27 PM

I am going to go out on a limb here. The answer this uninformed open forum has given you from the sparse information you have provided us agrees with the response you got from the manufacturer's help forum leads me to a simple conclusion. This is a PEBCAK error that is quickly approaching a 1D-10T alarm level.

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#9
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Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/20/2015 4:03 AM

PEBCAK?

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#20
In reply to #9

Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

04/07/2015 2:52 AM

Problem Exisists Between Chair and Keyboard

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#7
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Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/20/2015 4:01 AM

And why is this measurement of value?

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#3

Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/19/2015 9:35 PM

Consult operator's manual.

Consult manufacturer's web site.

Call manufacturer's tech service.

Call manufacturer's tech to come out and fix the equipment.

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#4
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Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/19/2015 9:39 PM

Have done all above and manufacturer's tech service has no solution

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/19/2015 9:43 PM

Then, you have the incorrect machine/application/product/manufacturer.

Sorry.

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#8

Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/20/2015 4:02 AM

Increase the flow rate.

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#10

Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/20/2015 10:51 AM

Install an accumulator upstream of the analyzer with a air vent and automatic bleed-off port at the top which is large enough in size to allow separation of the entrained air from the fluid before it reaches the sampling takeoff line.

The other alternative would be to introduce enough pressure inside the sensor to prevent the micro-bubbles from forming during sampling.

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#11

Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/20/2015 2:08 PM

Some sensors will actually heat the water to 25 degrees C before taking the test. That is the standard temperature to measure conductivity. If there are gases in the water and that could be likely oxygen or carbon dioxide but other gases can be in water supplies. Different gases are at saturation at different temperature. the lower the temperature the more gas can be dissolve. You have a couple of options and that could be to simply use the ambient temperature and assure the sensor does not adjust it. You will then have to look up a correction factor. It is about 2% of the reading/degree C but charts are available on line for temperature correction.

The other way is to install some sort of degassing device ahead of the point of measurement. That is bring the temperature up to the sensor reading temperature (25 C) and let the water vent to air to remove any bubbles that may form. The manufacture HACH is good at helping and may be able to provide more detail based on model. Good Luck

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#12

Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/20/2015 2:19 PM

In a general sense, bubbles form from a reduced solubility of the dissolved air, either from a increase in temperature or a drop in pressure. A change in location might stop this, or...

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#13

Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/21/2015 1:15 AM

A bit tough when the manufacturer says they have no idea....did they even ask for a photo of how and where it is installed?

Here at CR4 we like photos so please either tell us how and where it is installed, or provide a photo or two,

You might be in an inadvertent eddy or some other oddity.

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#14

Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/21/2015 10:06 AM

Just an added thought. Is the sensor measuring treated or raw water? Raw water may have bacteria which can create bubbles by releasing CO2.

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#15

Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/21/2015 11:16 AM

I remember reading somewhere that bubbles tend to rise in water. Just move the sensor so it is under the pipe instead of above the pipe. I don't care what angle or temperature you install it at.

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#16

Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/26/2015 3:51 PM

Since you are measuring conductivity of treated water (does not really matter whether this is surface water or connate water), you must assume the water is saturated with CO2, N2, and O2 at the temperature and pressure of measurement. On the other hand, if this water has a high organic content prior to treatment (such as surface waters with tannic acid present), the gas may be CO2 from continued reaction with added oxidant (chlorine).

You have a couple of options, depending on what you are allowed to do to the sample in the standard operating procedure of this test.

(1) chill the sample from the incoming temperature by at least a couple of degree C. Example: If water is reaching the probe at 28 °C, then chill the flowing sample to 25 °C. Decreasing the temperature will increase gas solubility. You should read the temperature upstream of where you are sampling and at the de-bubbler, then compare these readings with the temperature at the probe. If the probe is the higher temperature, you may need to remove whatever source of heat is causing that.

(2) If chilling is not completely effective in solving your problem, you might need to increase the system pressure to keep dissolved gases in solution past the probe. Make sure that increasing this pressure is done in a way that does not heat up the sample in any way.

(3) Use a programmed flow technique so that higher than normal flow exists while not recording a new reading, then reduce the flow to the standard value only during the time for the sensor to settle and the data to be logged. This should purge out bubbles that may be sticking to surfaces in the sample well/probe.

(4) Install a device that slaps the side of the sample well periodically, in order to dislodge bubbles that accumulate.

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#17
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Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/26/2015 5:56 PM

GA. Not accustomed to chilling water as most test waters where I live are well below 25ο C. A water supply high in bacteria will release CO2 if the sample is agitated. I did not see anywhere that the water is treated but that is an assumption one would make.

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#18
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Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/26/2015 9:43 PM

Option 4 ....

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#19
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Re: Hach Conductivity Analyser

03/27/2015 8:19 AM

ROFLMAO! Yeah option 4. Option five is to run the sample through a Tibetan singing bowl (manually operated??? or automatically stroked 'round and 'round??? IDC.)

Maybe option 6 is simply run the sample through an open bucket (in the dark of course), with a high speed stirrer to de-saturate the CO2.

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